If you knew what you know now, Will you buy a X5..!?!?

[CA_Tallguy]

Originally Posted by PropellerHead

If you want to see reliability and build issues, go to an ML website. They make the X5 look like a Honda.

Maybe the post 2002 models, which again get into those Chrysler years, or perhaps fit and finish but I don't really know about that. But during the early W163 years of 1997 to 2002 they used the same engine and transmission options as the E-Class W210.... M112, M113 engine and 722.6 transmission (used pretty much across mercedes line). And those have been rock solid in the e-class and I would assume that to hold true wherever those components were used. And like I said earlier, even though they are like a full generation behind your X5's (and the W164/W211 Mercedes) we are seeing nothing like what you guys do. And perhaps what the newer mercedes lines see too, but I don't really have enough knowledge to compare that generation.

[PropellerHead]

Originally Posted by CA_Tallguy

Maybe the post 2002 models, which again get into those Chrysler years, or perhaps fit and finish but I don't really know about that. But during the early W163 years of 1997 to 2002 they used the same engine and transmission options as the E-Class W210.... M112, M113 engine and 722.6 transmission (used pretty much across mercedes line). And those have been rock solid in the e-class and I would assume that to hold true wherever those components were used. And like I said earlier, even though they are like a full generation behind your X5's (and the W164/W211 Mercedes) we are seeing nothing like what you guys do. And perhaps what the newer mercedes lines see too, but I don't really have enough knowledge to compare that generation.

Interesting perspective. That is the exact opposite impression I have heard and the exact opposite of the comments on this ML board:

I believe the 1998-2002 ML is the lowest point for mercedes since the third reich.. but pretty much anything built since the W124 is relative crap, however I hear in the last couple years that quality is back on track and the new E-Class in the best in more than 15 years, I do not own one however my neighbor bought a new '11 E350 and it's not only gorgeous in metallic grey but the interior appears to be well built and of quality materials, gotta love that MB-Tex!

Thanks for the feedback to those who have responded.

Based on my 4 months of experiences with this ML320, I may have been expecting too much after 40+ years of hearing of Mercedes quality. Despite an excellent service and maintenance history, never having been in a wreck and being only half the age and half the mileage of my current BMW the ML320 has more plastic parts falling off or broken, things that don't work, a poor fit & finish plus some really odd design quirks (back seat folding gymnastics to name one) which had me wondering if I had made a mistake buying a Mercedes.

Is there really a big difference between just one model year of ML320's? Does the 2002 really have improvements indicative of the Mercedes brand? I would be interested in hearing what has been done to make the 2002 a much better vehicle.

[CA_Tallguy]

Again, I can't speak to the fit/finish items with the ML that the thread you posted talks about. My comments have been about the major, drive train type items between the X5 E53 and 1996 to 2002 mercedes. I don't think you will find even a small fraction of mercedes owners of the engines and transmissions built during those years that have problems like you guys have with your engines and transmissions. I'm pretty confident that the M112, M113, M119 mercedes engines and 722.6 transmission are highly regarded and relatively "bullet proof".

But my point isn't to come in here trying to say "merecedes is better than bmw" -- I have owned three BMW's and love german cars in general. My buddy is still driving the 3 series convertible I convinced him to buy 15 years ago... his first BMW. I am just disappointed to hear what I do from you guys about the X5 and also in things I hear about Mercedes during the Chrysler years. I just wanted to post an outsiders perspective to say that I am in agreement with others that have posted in this thread -- the problems you have should not be part of the expected cost of owning a quality german vehicle.

Right now, I'm looking for a vehicle to tow with. Mercedes is out of the question but I have heard good experiences from people with the X5 about handling and stuff. My alternative seems to be a domestic truck or SUV. But I look at the domestic stuff and think, geez, those engine compartments and brakes and things look like crap! So I want to think that an X5 would be a better choice -- but you guys are saying it yourselves.... there seems to be a very low level of satisfaction with your cars. And that components that I want to buy it for do not seem reliable at all.

For me, I justify buying german cars -- BMW, mercedes, whatever -- because of the quality. And I'm just not seeing it in the X5 from what you guys are saying here. There is a very good chance that I am going to jump in the boat with you guys anyway but, wow, I really wish I was hearing you guys say "these things are bullet proof" etc. and "a BMW X5 should run through 250K miles no problem!" You are not.

[x5sportman]

[QUOTE=CA_Tallguy;892882]I love german cars and was hoping that the X5 might be in my future.

After years of driving Grand Cherokees, I bought a used X5 4.4i sport last year. I loved the look, the way it handled, and the fact that I finally had my first BMW, even with 50K on the clock.

I won't detail every issue I had, but the amount of plastic parts that broke was amazing in a car that expensive. German engineering, what a crock. The real tester for me was finding someone who had a clue how to diagnose problems and then fix them. Taking it to a generalist garage was a joke, taking it to a stealership was a joke unless it was under warranty, and even when I found a decent indy shop, it was like pulling teeth to get problems resolved.

The last straw was the ZF transmission. I never liked the goofy shift points - in standard mode it upshifted too fast and then bogged; in sport mode, it didn't shift up fast enough and would nearly red-line in first; only manual auto gave good control and that got tiresome. Then the dreaded "rear end slam" started and it started slipping in 5th.

So looking at a $5000 rebuild 9 months in, I traded it in on a Grand Cherokee with virtually every luxury feature the X5 had, and I got the Hemi. It didn't hug the road like the X, so I installed Addco performance sway bars and Bilsteins, and it's close enough. I LOVE this thing. Best of all, my regular mechanic knows how to work on it!

I wouldn't have another BMW on a bet.

[PropellerHead]

Originally Posted by CA_Tallguy

I really wish I was hearing you guys say "these things are bullet proof" etc. and "a BMW X5 should run through 250K miles no problem!" You are not.

No one is. The days of bullet proof german cars is done. The days of bullet proof ANY car is done. Part of the business plan for these manufacturers is lowest cost manufacturing of highest cost engineering.

And I think you're reading the negative Nancy's who come here to b!tch and bemoan that they bought an 11 year old car with more than a few miles on it of unknown maintenance history and with little experience in the marque. Many of these folks were under some personal impression of what a 'BMW' means to reliability. They infer through some silly (total lack of) logic that a car that was expensive when new should cost LESS to maintain than a car cheaper when new. In the end, they were wholly unprepared to maintain, and PAY to repair the car they chose. It's easier to blame everyone else for our bad decisions and false understanding these days, so that is what many come here to do.

Now, if you take some time to weed through crybabies, you'll see some folks who understand that they're getting the most capable automobile for their needs- and most importantly their WANTS. You'll also see that they're willing to pay if they can just play a little longer.

You might even read about folks like me- on my second E53 in eight years. The family's third since a 2001 that's still in service and still on the original transmission. A few small problems out of my first one in 100K miles. No problems in the 2nd one for over a year. Maintenance? About $3K on the first one across 7 years and $3200 in the second so far (all planned).

Happy to play. Happy to pay. But I'm like many who came in with my eyes wide open. It sounds like your eyes are too. Don't forget to save up for the unexpected. You'll only have yourself to blame if you buy thinking otherwise!

[bigwave2255]

my experience is only with one car a 2005 x5 3.0 d, and i would have to say i am VERY satisfied with this car, i have had minimal problems, get excellent performance and economy ( diesel)


so do your due diligence and then sit back and enjoy

[CA_Tallguy]

Originally Posted by PropellerHead

You might even read about folks like me- on my second E53 in eight years. The family's third since a 2001 that's still in service and still on the original transmission. A few small problems out of my first one in 100K miles. No problems in the 2nd one for over a year. Maintenance? About $3K on the first one across 7 years and $3200 in the second so far (all planned).

$500 to $1000 per year in planned maintenance seems perfectly reasonable and perhaps even a bargain.

My eyes just start to pop out when I've seen so many threads where people are doing major engine/tranny work or replacements at well under 200K miles. That is almost unheard of in the Mercedes W210 forums.

I was getting the impression that experiences like yours are the exception rather than the rule. So it is good to hear some feedback like that.

[1stE53]

I'll be honest, I have a 2003 3.0 with 110K. I got it 2.5 years ago with 64k. I have had to do a lot of maintenance to it in the first year of ownership. I expected some, being a used car, but I was a little upset at how much I had to do. Had I not been able to do most of the repairs myself, there would be no way I could afford to keep it. For over a year now, it has been near perfect though. I do think they have too heavy of a car for the suspension and transmission though. I almost hated all the maintenance except for the fact that I love cars and working on them (not American ones though). I have learned so much about German cars through this site and getting under my X that I am actually almost happy I had all those issues. I almost get bored now because nothing is happening between oil changes LOL!! Knock on wood!!!!!!
I will tell you that I ABSOLUTELY LOVE driving my X though.

[NicholasW]

Man, propellerhead...Every post of your's that I've read, since joining this forum a few weeks ago, are well informed and put together.

I've only owned my X5 a few weeks, and it needs some work. I knew that when I bought it, that it was going to need some TLC, but I got a good deal on it. Well, and it was the only E53 under 20k that was fully loaded with the sport package and nav. So far I've had to replace a few things, but thanks to this forum, it was a lot cheaper and easier to figure out what needed to be done.

- New evap breather valve (for a check engine light) $65
- New coolant expansion tank $50
- Needs a FULL detail. LOTS of buffing. $cost of supplies so...$75
- New nav screen $170 (thanks to the info letting me know to order a new screen from china)

Thats it so far. I really need to find an OEM hitch kit. Dealer says 0 in national stock.

[SlickGT1]

I spent a pretty penny this first year of ownership. I would say about $2.5k. But I needed tires, so that by itself was $1100. Other than that preventative maintenance. And I'm a bit anal to have a perfect car.