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  #41  
Old 11-05-2015, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plattus1000 View Post
I'll go look now... (looking)
Agreed, the info comes from Dinan. The airbox alone won't do much, also agreed. A good muffler will reduce back pressure but some back pressure or resistance is a good thing or you would see cars run 5" pipe from the heads more often. I run free-flow cat-back dual exhaust on my wagon and it feels faster but I also have a 3:18 rear end so comparing my last 540i to this 540it is n/a.
Cold air being denser hence a higher amount of oxygen per measure of volume, agreed but it being the case doesn't help fuel combust in a mist form more than a vaporous state. It lessens the overall mixture and surface area of the fuel, takes longer to burn and doesn't burn fully as it would as a vapor. (still looking)
I'll wait to read the research and I suggest you start another thread when you post it. It is sure to be more polarizing than a combined thread about what oil is best and whether or not to change transmission fluid.
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  #42  
Old 11-05-2015, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plattus1000 View Post
Here's the tip of this debate iceberg http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e60...no-review.html loss of power after install. It's a "support upgrade" to support all the other stuff that you need to make it functional as designed. I had one, loved it but other than a cool sound and people touching it to see if it was really carbon fiber dinan stuff, it only helped because I had the other parts. (still digging)
The link goes nowhere and what I asked you to post is why hot air generates more power than cold air.
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  #43  
Old 11-05-2015, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by bcredliner View Post
I'll wait to read the research and I suggest you start another thread when you post it. It is sure to be more polarizing than a combined thread about what oil is best and whether or not to change transmission fluid.
Posted.

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  #44  
Old 11-05-2015, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plattus1000 View Post
I'll go look now... (looking)
Agreed, the info comes from Dinan. The airbox alone won't do much, also agreed. A good muffler will reduce back pressure but some back pressure or resistance is a good thing or you would see cars run 5" pipe from the heads more often. I run free-flow cat-back dual exhaust on my wagon and it feels faster but I also have a 3:18 rear end so comparing my last 540i to this 540it is n/a.
Cold air being denser hence a higher amount of oxygen per measure of volume, agreed but it being the case doesn't help fuel combust in a mist form more than a vaporous state. It lessens the overall mixture and surface area of the fuel, takes longer to burn and doesn't burn fully as it would as a vapor. (still looking)
Start another thread. I disagree with most of what you have posted but I don't think OP gives a rip about any of this.
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  #45  
Old 11-05-2015, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by bcredliner View Post
Per 2002 Dinan Catalog the cold air intake system added 13 bhp at 5,700 rpms and 12 lb/ft. of torque at 5,700 rpms. It doesn't go away so you either are accustomed to the gain or something else is happening. There is no adaption that will compromise the tune though the ECU is always adapting the transmission to driving style. You could be driving less aggressively than when you first installed the tune.

Dinan tunes are historically on the conservative side though they are designed to match to Dinan Mods. I suggest adding the Dinan transmission software rather than Dinan Stage 2 tune since you already have a tune. The transmission software makes a big difference and is well worth the cost. It changes the shift points so you benefit more from what you got out of the cold air addition, it speeds up the shifts and makes them firmer. All benefits are especially noticeably in either manual mode. If you are in the full manual mode where you have to shift the transmission it will stay in the gear you select until you shift.

More air means more air out. There will be benefit from lower back pressure mufflers and a better sound comes with them.
BCred, as for the tune I have from my local ECU programmer, this is what he told me the other day about what they did to my 4.4i with 4.8iS exhaust pipes/mufflers... Our tune stage 1 for BMW 4.4 includes optimized timing using 91 (I use 91 99.9% of time) or 94 octane, sharper throttle, speed limiter off, RPM increased by 250.

If I get the Dinan Stage 2 SW installed, it will overwrite what the local ecu programmer has done, according to him. so I'd loose all that money/tuning.

I also asked a Dinan installer here about tranny software for the facelifted models and he said there is none. It was just for the pre-facelifted models.

I really like the idea of the Dinan tranny software NOT shifting the gears up automatically on you when in manual mode. I agree its a sweeeet safety feature from factory but if you're using full manual mode you should be cognizant of what gear you are in (like a real manual car) anyhow.
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  #46  
Old 11-05-2015, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by bcredliner View Post
The link goes nowhere and what I asked you to post is why hot air generates more power than cold air.
Ah,
Try this and after this post I'll just let it go. http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...&highlight=CAI
1st and 4th post pertain but its a short thread and applies.
As for HAI, 2 thoughts, a short tube intake is also considered a HAI because there's no shield from heat from the engine but it isn't the 3 ring circus of a heated air intake which heats the air to a pretty high temp to vaporize the fuel when mixed for optimal burn. I'm no expert. It works in some applications.

CAI's also work well in some applications however for the money, you could get the same acceleration increase by removing the spare tire (weight) and I figured the best return on his $ was a flash and not a CAI if he wasn't going to spent the big money for the other parts needed to make a CAI on this engine worth a damn.
Youtube and google offer both sides to this argument. (cold air intake myth- as a sesearch term)

A new thread would certainly open up a discussion but solidly convince someone...?

I just don't think after having one with all the parts and doing research about its application in this particular vehicle as a stand-alone part it being beneficial in any way other than bragging rights.
I also have a standing rule: "Never trust the salesman" Dinan charges SO F'N MUCH for their stuff and I know the research and development have costs involved for a small business but there are other options out there.

I apologize if I came off as a hater or abrupt. I was just showing the other side of the coin.
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  #47  
Old 11-05-2015, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clockwork View Post
BCred, as for the tune I have from my local ECU programmer, this is what he told me the other day about what they did to my 4.4i with 4.8iS exhaust pipes/mufflers... Our tune stage 1 for BMW 4.4 includes optimized timing using 91 (I use 91 99.9% of time) or 94 octane, sharper throttle, speed limiter off, RPM increased by 250.

If I get the Dinan Stage 2 SW installed, it will overwrite what the local ecu programmer has done, according to him. so I'd loose all that money/tuning.

I also asked a Dinan installer here about tranny software for the facelifted models and he said there is none. It was just for the pre-facelifted models.

I really like the idea of the Dinan tranny software NOT shifting the gears up automatically on you when in manual mode. I agree its a sweeeet safety feature from factory but if you're using full manual mode you should be cognizant of what gear you are in (like a real manual car) anyhow.
I added paddles to have the most fun in the manual mode.

Since BMW tunes leave so much HP and TQ on the table and our vehicles can advance timing and higher octane allows more advance without spark knock, after market tunes generally take advantage of that opportunity. TQ gets you going and HP keeps you going. A tune improves both the how fast you get going and with the increase of rpm shift points you better advantage of the increased HP so you get from A-B sooner.

The difference in Dinan tunes and ofter aftermarket tunes is that Dinan optimizes the tune to the other Dinan mods. That doesn't mean it produces better results necessarily as it depends on how far other tunes push largely the timing advance. What I would do is find a 4 wheel dyno, book an appointment when it is cool and humidity around 50% and see what you have. I can tell you what you can expect out of the Dinan mods.

I don't like the Dinan prices but since Dinan matches the BMW warranty on new BMWs and BMW does not void the warrantly and Dinan specializes in BMWs, I am very confident in their products.

HP increases take cubic $$$$. Bottom line question is how much HP and TQ would you like or how much money do you want to spend. With that info I can suggest options to consider. As an example, you could add meth injection to boost the octane to the equivalent of 106 octane so you would be sure the knock sensors would never pull back the timing.

Performance Automatic Transmission Software (00-03) - Dinan, Leader in BMW Performance Parts and Upgrades As mentioned in an earlier post, the Dinan website is not always current but it shows transmission software for a 2005 4.4 is available.
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  #48  
Old 11-05-2015, 03:36 PM
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Ok, one guy I posted had a 4.4 with dinan's cai, maf, t/b, manifold but no flash. His 1/4 mile times are relevant and didn't go down.
The OP asked if he should grab the Dinan CAI. Without buying the rest of the package the answer is no unless you just want to feel cool, it doesn't help. If Steve is a contact for you, ask him this question I'll assume that he'll agree with me.
I agree that dyno #'s would be great but nobody, NOBODY ever spends $200 for the dyno after only purchasing the $200 CAI on these rigs. Probably because they know that the 2hp gain at redline isn't worth documenting.
I'm not adept at the nuances of exhaust tuning so I'm just repeating what I've been told by some mechanics on a dirt track car.
Everything I posted had relevance. It wasn't definitive but to ignore the information outright is miopic. To consider it and disagree or refute the information with alternate information in the form of datasheets or real-world test would be helpful but citing Dinan the company isn't really what I'd call reliable or valid since I doubt they ever saved a dyno spec a 4.4 with no modifications beyond the CAI.

I guess I'm just more open-minded now after having drank the koolaid and then researching after the fact. I'm not immovable in my opinions. I need a shadow of a doubt to lean but I can lean.

I also mistakenly didn't see that he already had a tune or I recall seeing it but was under the impression that he didn't have the maf, t/b, manifold or a tune that would utilize these components as required so I still suggest that with a "tune" just adding a CAI will be no real benifit.
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  #49  
Old 11-05-2015, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plattus1000 View Post
Ah,
Try this and after this post I'll just let it go. http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...&highlight=CAI
1st and 4th post pertain but its a short thread and applies.
As for HAI, 2 thoughts, a short tube intake is also considered a HAI because there's no shield from heat from the engine but it isn't the 3 ring circus of a heated air intake which heats the air to a pretty high temp to vaporize the fuel when mixed for optimal burn. I'm no expert. It works in some applications.

CAI's also work well in some applications however for the money, you could get the same acceleration increase by removing the spare tire (weight) and I figured the best return on his $ was a flash and not a CAI if he wasn't going to spent the big money for the other parts needed to make a CAI on this engine worth a damn.
Youtube and google offer both sides to this argument. (cold air intake myth- as a sesearch term)

A new thread would certainly open up a discussion but solidly convince someone...?

I just don't think after having one with all the parts and doing research about its application in this particular vehicle as a stand-alone part it being beneficial in any way other than bragging rights.
I also have a standing rule: "Never trust the salesman" Dinan charges SO F'N MUCH for their stuff and I know the research and development have costs involved for a small business but there are other options out there.

I apologize if I came off as a hater or abrupt. I was just showing the other side of the coin.
Correction-I misquoted the Dinan catalog. The airbox gain I posted is with stage 3A software and the throttle body.

A dyno is a good way to see what mods do to performance bearing in mind there is a +- error factor in a dyno and from run to run.

Comparisons of results to other vehicles or other mods has no bearing. To make your point, we would have to have comparisons of Dinan mods to other options. A test of what happens to a Skyline is interesting but not applicable. An applicable test would be to evaluate the worth of the Dinan airbox and tune verses stock or other cold air systems and software options, that could be applicable.

The best length intake runners depends on the application. It is not consistent across the board. In the specific case a 4.4 longer runner intake will help as add on to compliment other more air through the engine mods.

I can identify about being sure that the salesmen is accurate but that is not a truism. In this case, I have met and talked with Steve Dinan and discussed their research and development process which is extremely impressive. I purchased the mods. I have verified the performance gains exceed their figures. The mods have been in place since about a month after I purchased my 4.6 new.

I also have both meth injection and 150 shot of nitrous. Both cool the incoming air. That is part of the total gain in performance.

I haven't weighed my spare tire. I have the spacesaver spare tire. I'm guessing it is between 50-60lb. In round numbers removing 100lb. will result in .1 improvement in a quarter mile. The mods we are discussing will deliver well in excess of that improvement.

Clockwork already has a tune and the Dinan airbox. The question is if going to a Dinan map will be an improvement or will he be going backward. Unfortunately, the tune he has will be erased and if Dinan tune is not an improvement he will have spent a bunch of money for nothing and he will have to purchase the tune he had again.

IMO, as long as the tune did what Clockwork wanted it to do that it is better to spend $$$ elsewhere.

Going back to back pressure. Generally speaking, until you get to very small engines reducing back pressure is a good thing. Stock exhaust if far from the optimum and, IMO, the first mod to make especially if you plan to do others.

Transmission software--show me transmission software for less than $299.

I don't see you as a hater or abrupt. Different viewpoints are great, but, at the risk of being contrary, applied to this specific case, what you are saying does not stand up as the other side of the coin.
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  #50  
Old 11-05-2015, 03:42 PM
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Sorry for hijacking this thread. I'm out.
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