Any 35D Owners install this performance tune?

[JasonG]

Originally Posted by 2011_X5_35D

My local BMW dealer install Dinan in there shop ... go figure...Why would they do that?

Read the fine print....i know it's not the same, but my dodge dealer sold Superchips programmers for their trucks....but the fine print said it is not backed by dodge and that warranty wouldnt cover issues incurred via it's use....bottom line is that your mfg warranty is at risk with any non mfg provided performance enhancer (dealers arent the mfg in this example)

...a common marketing ploy is that the tuner box is "undetectable" or "undetectable by the dealer"...read the fine print....sure, the hardware isnt detectable if removed, but tht ECM can log data outside stock parameters...codes can be cleared, but on some vehicles history cannot (no clue on bmw)....bottom line is if an injector goes south (example, assume not related to performance box) and it's going to be expensive to fix, if corp bmw investigates you can be more than screwed...they dont have to prove a box caused the issue, just that increased (above stock) fuel pressure was logged (example)....hmm, that's not a bmw issue if above stock parameters were used.

again, the odds are with you if you're doing mild power increase +40/+80 ish, or maybe more depening upon vehicle....but if you have a mfg defect in your trans, turbo, injectors or what not and it blows and they research and find alterations were present...they can screw you....bottom like is it's a risk no matter who's product is used....granted some companies may address this somewhat better than others.

It sucks, i really want a box for my x5d as i'm sure it will be wonderfull....but i cant afford the risk of a major issue being on my dime (esp on a lease)....

[JCL]

Originally Posted by JasonG

Read the fine print....i know it's not the same, but my dodge dealer sold Superchips programmers for their trucks....but the fine print said it is not backed by dodge and that warranty wouldnt cover issues incurred via it's use....bottom line is that your mfg warranty is at risk with any non mfg provided performance enhancer (dealers arent the mfg in this example)

Not the same issue with Dinan. Their warranty supplements the BMW warranty. It isn't that the BMW warranty isn't affected, it is that the 'who pays' just switches to Dinan from BMW for things BMW won't cover. That includes components on the vehicle impacted by the Dinan tune, ie consequential damage. And all this costs a hefty premium over tuners that don't cover consequential damage.

[JCL]

Originally Posted by AlexK

Why wouldn't they? They have a special agreement (even though the dealer might not tell you about it) with Dinan, they get $$$ through labor fees and (maybe) a certain extra % from each software flash directly from Dinan. If something goes wrong (like if you blow up your engine), they probably must contact Dinan first and won't do any repairs until Dinan will approve it, just like it's said on website:
"The decision to repair or replace said parts is at the sole discretion of Dinan and/or the original vehicle manufacturer." The last part doesn't apply since BMW will void your warranty with any software mod like this, except (obviously) BMW's own "Performance Power Kit".

There is nothing secret about it. Some BMW dealers are also Dinan dealers. Of course they make a profit, as they should. They claim warranty from BMW for the vehicle in the event of a warrantable failure, and if there is failure that BMW won't cover because it is attributed to the Dinan modifications, it is covered by Dinan. Your risk is if you combine Dinan mods with other (non-Dinan) mods, and expect Dinan to cover those.

[ard]

Originally Posted by JCL

I agree with Ard's comments, above. I wouldn't use the term 'void', but rather 'impact', when referring to manufacturer's warranty, but we are splitting hairs.

True, and that is why I used the 'quotes'. It is an interesting distinction because some vendors use it to confuse....


I comment about this aspect to point out much of the confusion and disinformation that vendors use.

JCL is correct- using modifications does not "Void" the warranty- under the Moss Magnueesen act a MFG cannot simply "void" the warranty. But they can say "damage due to the mod will not be covered". Practically speaking, this is the same as a 'void'.

But sleazy vendors seize on this and say "they cannot void your warranty", which is narrowly and technically correct...but they CAN refuse to cover a failure. (Congrats, the warranty is not voided...but your motor failure will not be covered due to that mod.)

Furthermore, manufacturers hold all the gold- they simply refuse to pay and you are stuck filing a $50-100k lawsuit for a $25k claim. So those vendors who say "BMW must prove the mod caused the damage" leave out the part in which the venue at which the 'proof' will be heard will cost you $$$$. (The dealer isn't required to do an investigation, there is no way to demand they back up a decision.)

There is some very slippery and unclear language about all this. People are looking up various website claims and comparing one against the other... but the underlying truth is that the differences are driven by the ethics of the companies writing them and their legal sophistication and business risk understanding.

I stand by my earlier post- it is pretty simple, what is confusing is the noise being generated by the vendors.

A

PS People also need to understand that what a DEALER does- as a completely independent company from BMWNA- has not impact on the BMW warranty. Just because a dealer installs a mod does not mean that somehow BMWNA has blessed or approved it,

[tlouie]

Well I installed th JBD at 1225 miles and now am at 2500 miles....not alot of time on it, but here are my observations:

Definately more mid-range power...especially from 3-4k rpm, butt dyno says maybe 40-50 hp more, i'm running th JBD at the default halfway setting...who knows how accurate my butt dyno is, but its significantly faster as my passengers can attest

I dunno how accurate the onboard computer is but in the drive from home to work my car was getting 27mpg, and now the onboard computer is telling me an average of 31mpg...this could also be the car breaking in more and losening up

I've never had any kind of CEL or other warning, but then again my JBD is set at the mid-way setting, higher setting may cause CELs

Looks its $325, what did you expect for that price? of course you are not getting the most sophisticated tune, then again a $5 bleeder T on a supra MKIV adds 50+ hp....really crude

[tlouie]

JBDiesel 335D/X5D dyno numbers and discussion - Page 22 - N54TECH.COM : BMW N54 / N55 Turbo Performance forum

Here is an entire 22 page thread on the JBD, according to Terry from Burger, 150+ sold, not a single return

[Aidan]

Thank God this has finally turned into a mature type of technical debate

Firstly, I was merely giving advice regarding tuning boxes. I did state that yes they do their job, they do release more bhp but in a very very crude way.
It is up to you if you want to buy one and try it. Do I advise them? No I defintaley do not and think that 300dollars could be better spent on other performance mods.


Moving on, I am likely going to get slated once again but if you don't appreciate my advice PLEASE don't read it or don't leave silly comments quoting my posts. It is very dis respectable.

So I read few pages back that somebody mentioned a certain company that offers a warranty.
This is a played out sales gimmick I often see over here on this side of the world.
Example: Your turbo blows after 6 months.
A remap is detectable there is no question about it. Even though no components are added, if BMW decide to run a live reading from the OBD they can compare the logs with a standard original file and note some differences. What happens next?
BMW tell you your ECU settings have been altered and your warranty is void. Next thing to do is call your "tuner" and explain to him what happened. Now here is where the tuner has you where he wants! He is asking you to prove that the malfunction of the turbo is caused by his remap. You can travel all over the world to all of the various engineers and nobody can prove that a remap caused the turbo to blow. Yes they can guess but not prove and proof is what is needed. BMW cannot give you a statement to say that the turbo failure is a direct cause of the remap by that tuning company BUT they can void your warranty so they can basically brush their hands of the problem.

[Aidan]

Originally Posted by JCL

I spend some time following the threads at e90post in the forced induction forum. It makes for good reading. Some of the periodic BMW software updates added 'tuner detection codes' for lack of a better phrase, flags that mark that a tune was installed. Tuners responsed by providing a tool that clears them, as well as CEL faults. More and more detection methods will keep coming, and tuners will keep trying to figure out how to beat them. The stakes are rising for manufacturers, and they won't just sit and watch it. They will manage their warranty exposure. Recently a BMW customer went in for maintenance, and had his tune detected. He was surprised, as he had cleared all codes immediately prior to visiting the dealer. Turns out that the OBD goes through a reset after clearing codes, and the catalytic converter readiness flag takes up to 50 miles to reset, depending on temperature. So, they caught him for having recently cleared codes. Pretty funny, actually. In his case, the dealer didn't report him to BMW and flag his warranty, they called him and told him to come get his car before they did that. They gave him a break. I think they were making a point.

All of the history is in the DME/DDE, and can always be pulled out. For some data, it takes the factory to do that instead of the dealer, but it is always possible. Some tuners are claiming that if you don't let them take out your box and send it to the factory, it can't be detected. In my business whenever we had field follow (new test) units, we linked them up to the factory remotely for troubleshooting and flash upgrades. I don't see why BMW wouldn't have the same capability.

Hi, Since mid 2009 onwards it has become impossible to flash a modified tune onto your ECU via the diagnostics port (OBD). Bosch have released new anti-tuning processors attached to their ECU so when attempts are made to tune the ECU will lock and no longer work.
In order to tune ECUs of relatively new cars you now need to remove the ECU and flash it on the bench which bypasses the anti-tuning processor.

Yes, manufactures are making it more difficult to remap an ECU but they are still required to have their EPROM chip both Erasable and Programmable just for them to update softwares so they will always be a way to tune an ECU but it is getting harder to do!

[Noodles]

Originally Posted by Aidan

Hi, Since mid 2009 onwards it has become impossible to flash a modified tune onto your ECU via the diagnostics port (OBD). Bosch have released new anti-tuning processors attached to their ECU so when attempts are made to tune the ECU will lock and no longer work.
In order to tune ECUs of relatively new cars you now need to remove the ECU and flash it on the bench which bypasses the anti-tuning processor.

Yes, manufactures are making it more difficult to remap an ECU but they are still required to have their EPROM chip both Erasable and Programmable just for them to update softwares so they will always be a way to tune an ECU but it is getting harder to do!

I wouldn't say it's impossible..You mustn't have seen the countless threads on portable flash at HOME units VIA OBD for a significant amount of $ compared to the jbd by ess, Cobb, giac to name a few. You gotta pay to play.

[Aidan]

Originally Posted by Noodles

I wouldn't say it's impossible..You mustn't have seen the countless threads on portable flash at HOME units VIA OBD for a significant amount of $ compared to the jbd by ess, Cobb, giac to name a few. You gotta pay to play.

Please point me to a thread where somebody has successfully flashed a tuned file onto their ECU via OBD port on a 2010 car.