Jewish protest

[Eric5273]

Originally Posted by B-Line

You are confused because of the term PALESTINE. THe land of Israel used to be under the Ottoman Empire. After that it became part of the British territories. The area was called "PALESTINE" but there was no state. Furthermore, Christians , Jews and Muslims all lived in the land called Palestine. Nothing was taken away from anybody. It was British controlled land. Britain with the support of the UN divided the land called Palestine into two states, Israel and Palestine. Prior to that, it was just a territory inhabited by all. The Jews accepted the statehood and Israel became an official country. The Arab-Muslim population refused to recognize a Jewish state and thus did not accept the lands to be created under the term Palestine. But there was no Palestine country.

Then the Arab-Muslim population that didn't accept Israel as a state on 3 separate occasions, with the help of their Jew hating neighbors, attacked Israel in an effort to destroy it (Or were planning an attack..) The state of Israel then occupied territories that the Arab Muslim population turned down and occupied it for military strategy cause they kept getting attacked from there.

You forgot the part where 500,000 Arabs were removed from their homes by force and kicked off of their property never to return again.

That is an issue that has nothing to do with what the name of the country is or who is the government, but has to do with respecting property rights of individuals.

And BTW, even in the Jewish Bible there is lots of mention of Palestine.

[Eric5273]

Originally Posted by jigaro

You are mistaking if you think Americans pay only for Israeli healthcare.
-Sponsoring the Army? Weapons? I can imagine how expensive it could get if you are backing a country militarly which is constantly at war.

We give billions of dollars to Israel in aid each year. They provide free health care to all of their citizens. Thus, we are paying for Israelis to have free health care. Dollars are dollars. It doesn't matter what the money was intended for. As long as we give aid to Israel, and Israelis get free health care paid for by their government, and we in the United States do not get free health care, then our taxes are paying for Israeli health care instead of our own.

[jigaro]

Originally Posted by B-Line

Jig,

For arguments sake:

Nomenclature

The name Canaan is mentioned frequently in the Bible. It refers to parts or all of the region between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea in antiquity[5] It is also sometimes used interchangeably with the Land of Israel, Palestine, Zion, the Holy Land or the Promised Land.[citation needed]
Canaan predates the name Land of Israel but describes the same land.[6] The classical Jewish view, as explained by Schweid, is that "Canaan" is the geographical name; the renaming as "Israel" prior to its invasion by the Israelites marks its sanctification, the origin of the Holy Land concept.[7] The region of Judaea existed by that name for from the 6th century BC until it was renamed "Palestina" by the Romans following the Bar Kokhba revolt against Rome in the 2nd century AD. In the Bible and elsewhere, Zion originally meant the region of and around Jerusalem but, because of the importance of this city, came to designate the whole of the Israelite land, as for example in the naming of Zionism.

But putting the religious ownership of the land to the side we need to be a little more pragmatic. The land belonged to the UK. They said:
Divide it into two states, Israel and Palestine. The Israelis said, Okay, thanks for giving us a Jewish state and giving holocaust survivors a place to live.
The Palestinians said, "Oh no, we don't want to recognize a Jewish state, the whole area should be ours!" and then they attacked Israel. So come the spoils of war and the Palestinians lost the land that they had already refused anyhow.

My point is further, that wasn't the first time that Muslim-Arabs tried to rid the world of Jews, nor the first time Germans, or Russians tried it either. The only difference is, now the Jews are armed to fight back and to suppress their enemies.

The Jewish state of Israel is a necessity. And it exists on land that has always had Jewish populations, holy sites and historical religious context.

The Jewish state is there to protect Jews from the continuing atrocities that have happened to them over and over and over again, throughout time.

From the holocausts, to the Spanish Inquisitions, to the Russian Pogroms, etc. And in every instance of Israels fight for survival, it has been attacked by neighboring hostile enemies who only care to destroy Israel because of it's Jewish leadership and citizenry.

It is the one, the only, Jewish homeland. And it's only the size of the state of New Jersey. The Middle East is tremendous and it's resources and fuels vast.. The only reason the Palestinians get the support from their neighbors is not because of what they may or may have not lost. But because they all have the same enemy, a Jewish lead state.

Anything less than an all out, defensive stance by Israel against hostile aggressions should be retaliated with equal or greater force.

As you have mantioned above, why do you think Israel views rest of the arab world as enemies? Surely Jews did not kick rest of the Arab people off the land?
The reason is, as often stated by Jews as an argument, why don't you go and live in the rest of the arab countries, they are same as you, as for us Jews we are different and therefor we deserve a state.
-That is a wrong aproach to begin with, no matter which way you turn it, just because in the past you have been mistreated that does not give you a right to misplace vast majority of population from one place to another, THAT'S CALLED ETHNIC CLEANSING, sure that will never bee recognized in 20th century history by United Nations, for those same reasons you mentioned above.
Just because Jews have been living there for centuries, that does not mean at that exact spot should be a country which serves the interest for mainly Jew state, as you know, the holliest places for all 3 religions is alltogether in a 100 meter radius, so what if mistreated group of christians state they need a state which should be based near the holliest places of their religion, that would be wrong would it not?
-Thats why there should have been palestine and everyone that lived there should have continued living as they where.

[B-Line]

Originally Posted by jigaro

As you have mantioned above, why do you think Israel views rest of the arab world as enemies? Surely Jews did not kick rest of the Arab people off the land?
The reason is, as often stated by Jews as an argument, why don't you go and live in the rest of the arab countries, they are same as you, as for us Jews we are different and therefor we deserve a state.
-That is a wrong aproach to begin with, no matter which way you turn it, just because in the past you have been mistreated that does not give you a right to misplace vast majority of population from one place to another, THAT'S CALLED ETHNIC CLEANSING, sure that will never bee recognized in 20th century history by United Nations, for those same reasons you mentioned above.
Just because Jews have been living there for centuries, that does not mean at that exact spot should be a country which serves the interest for mainly Jew state, as you know, the holliest places for all 3 religions is alltogether in a 100 meter radius, so what if mistreated group of christians state they need a state which should be based near the holliest places of their religion, that would be wrong would it not?
-Thats why there should have been palestine and everyone that lived there should have continued living as they where.

Interesting point Jig. However

The Jewish population of Israel has several times offered to incorporate the Palestinians as members of the Jewish state giving them full citizenship. The condition being:
A) They must recognize the state of Israel
B) They must vanquish their other citizenships.

So suggesting that the Jewish population is trying to ethnic cleans is a little far fetched. Matter of fact, there are many Muslims who are Israeli and live peacefully under the protection and rights of the Jewish state.

In other words, the Palestanian people that the Israeli's continue to fight with are those that have:
A) Declined to be a part of the state of Israel, even after they declined to accept territories earmarked for Palestine.
B) Refuse to acknowledge, accept the right to a Jewish state.

Israeli's did not say, "Move somewhere else" The Jews did not kick them off their land. They refused the land and also refused to become members of the existing state of Israel..

In other words, THEY DON'T WANT ISRAEL to exist, at all. They don't want to share the land, they don't want to be a part of a territory that has Israel as a Jewish state. They have also continued to attack Israel ever since it was formed.

So to insinuate that Israel is trying to ethnic cleans is pretty silly in my mind. They have offered citizenship, they have even given back lands, and still, Hamas refuses to accept a two state resolution if it means the recognition of Israel.

As far as your last statement, the United Nations decided to give that territory, under the permission of the UK, to both Palestine and Israel. It's not Israels fault that the Palestinens refused their portion. Israelis did not take the land, it was given to them by the collective agreement of the entire worlds delegates.

[blondboinsd]

B Why do you argue with the resident Whack-job? Eric has such a narrow mind it's infuriating sometimes. He can't stand to be wrong. Let alone he has proven he is a hypocrite yet still posts with arrogance and through all this is FAR TO CHEAP to buy a premier membership while his posts eat up/ruin take your pick our storage space.... Just my 2 cents...

[Eric5273]

Originally Posted by B-Line

The Jewish population of Israel has several times offered to incorporate the Palestinians as members of the Jewish state giving them full citizenship. The condition being:
A) They must recognize the state of Israel
B) They must vanquish their other citizenships.

This was only offered to Jews living inside of Israel and NOT in Gaza or the West Bank, which is where the Majority of Palestineans live.

[B-Line]

Bo,

To be honest, I'm not arguing with Eric. I'm presenting alternative information to anyone who might be reading one of these threads who might actually believe Eric's nonsense.

It just so happens my responses are formed as a counterpoint to Eric's statements. So while it seems that I'm arguing with him, I',m just presenting information that isn't smeared in Eric-verbal-fecal-matter with no basis of truth.

Though I do stand my statement, I do actually believe that Eric believes the own garbage he spews regardless of how silly it is.

[Eric5273]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3111727.stm

Thursday, 31 July, 2003
Israeli law limits Arab citizenship
The Israeli parliament passed a law preventing Palestinians married to Israelis from gaining Israeli citizenship.

Human rights groups have condemned the law as racist but supporters say it is necessary for security reasons and to maintain the Jewish character of the state of Israel.

The law will prevent Palestinians from the occupied territories in the West Bank and Gaza from marrying Arab-Israelis, who make up about 20% of the population of Israel.




If these people were offered Israeli citizenship, then this would not be an issue. But Arabs who live in the West Bank and Gaza have never been offered citizenship. In fact, based on where they are from, they are automatically not eligable for citizenship. And since the passing of this law, marriage between an Arab from the West Bank or Gaza and an Israeli Arab is not even recognized by the Israeli government as a legitimate marriage.

[Eric5273]

From an Israeli news source:

http://www.ynet.co.il/english/articl...499881,00.html

Arabs battle for citizenship; State unyielding

Mohammed al-Deik has lived in Israel for 18 years, paid taxes, employed workers in his factory and even married two Israeli citizens and fathered an Israeli girl, but Interior Ministry still refuses to grant him citizenship



If you read the article, you find out that the reason he and others in similar situations have been denied citizenship is that they were born in the West Bank.

[B-Line]

Arab, in your statement you said, "That was only offered to Jews living in Israel and not in Gaza or the West Bank." - I think you meant Muslims.

And you are correct, Israeli citizenship was not offered to ALL Palestinians. It was offered to all Muslims living in the state of Israel. My mistake (yes, that was a big mistake on my part.)