Home Forums Articles How To's FAQ Register
Go Back   Xoutpost.com > BMW SAV Forums > X5 (E53) Forum
Arnott
User Name
Password
Member List Premier Membership Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Xoutpost server transfer and maintenance is occurring....
Xoutpost is currently undergoing a planned server migration.... stay tuned for new developments.... sincerely, the management


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #101  
Old 10-24-2013, 09:49 AM
TiAgX5's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Coppell,TX
Posts: 3,489
TiAgX5 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCL View Post
.......That is why I recommend ZF fluid and OE filters, for example. They aren't necessarily that much better, but they are lower risk.
I would have gone with the ZF fluid had I researched the topic more throughly B4 my 100k fluid/filter swap. I was listening for trans noise post fluid swap for around a year (20k miles). Now that my trans has gone over 70k on Castrol I will be continuing with it to see if I can get to over 200k (no plan on selling the X, drilled slotted rotors/refinshed calipers/CC pads and KW C'overs are going on soon, sub-10k value on '03 4.4 is not enough $s for overall condition).
__________________
'03 X5 4.4 Sport, last of the M62s (8-03 build date)
I believe in deadication to craftmanship in a world of mediocrity!
Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links

  #102  
Old 10-24-2013, 10:32 AM
bcredliner's Avatar
Premier Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Little Elm,Texas. (40 minutes North of Dallas)
Posts: 8,105
bcredliner is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by srmmmm View Post
It appears to me the people with the most problems are those who number one: perform frequent fluid changes (possibly with the wrong fluid); number two: reprogram or modify their transmissions, and number three: misinterpret worn driveshaft splines or low vehicle voltage as a transmission problem. I think the units are quite reliable under normal driving conditions. However, due to the higher performance characteristics of the X5 itself, many of us take on a more "spirited" driving attitude, thus advancing the normal wear cycle of the driveline. I have 242,000 miles on my 3.0 with a build date of October 2002. The fluid has never been changed and I have done at least 15,000 miles of towing a 1300 pound PWC & trailer in Texas heat with no problems at all.

In past lives with GM turbo 350s, 400s, 200Rs, a fluid and filter change every 30,000 miles was the norm. But with newer synthetic fluids and the precision of electronic controls, the internal wear factors have been sharply reduced.
I would be among those that change the fluid (every 50,000) miles. My transmission is also modified with Dinan transmission software. I also have all the Dinan mods plus nitrous. I am in Texas also, and have the original transmission at 110,000mi. That means there is at least one transmission in service that is still performing as intended having done all the above.

My question is--when a particular BMW transmission fails what are the likely causes in descending order of likelihood.
__________________
X5 4.6 2002 Black Sap, Black interior. 2013 X5M Melbourne Red, Bamboo interior
Dallas
Reply With Quote
  #103  
Old 10-24-2013, 10:39 AM
bcredliner's Avatar
Premier Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Little Elm,Texas. (40 minutes North of Dallas)
Posts: 8,105
bcredliner is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by TiAgX5 View Post
Brian, I think we have the same trans (5HP24) except you have a slightly larger TC (due to the extra grunt of the 4.6). I did a fluid/filter change (3 drain/fill, new filter on last fill) at 100k miles. 173k miles now with no issues (even using the Castrol Multicar Import, some on here and B'forums stated failure would soon follow because of missing "friction modifiers"). Planning another series of drains/fills soon and will be checking the pan mags closely.

There's no such thing as a lubricant with infinite life (even syns) and I'm suspect of BMWs motivition in making such a claim at the EXACT time they began no charge sched maint. Even the maint sched provided with my X stated 100k fluid swaps, when I pointed it out to the Senior SA at a Florida BMW dealer it was dismissed a printing error. In the same breath he informed me that BMW translates trans lifetime as 100k miles.
BMW says the fluid lasts a 'lifetime'. I don't recall a communication from BMW saying WARNING--Do not change the transmission fluid. I change the fluid because I believe the capability of the fluid to properly lubricate declines as miles increase.
__________________
X5 4.6 2002 Black Sap, Black interior. 2013 X5M Melbourne Red, Bamboo interior
Dallas

Last edited by bcredliner; 10-24-2013 at 10:47 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old 10-24-2013, 10:59 AM
bcredliner's Avatar
Premier Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Little Elm,Texas. (40 minutes North of Dallas)
Posts: 8,105
bcredliner is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCL View Post
I don't think there is any consensus on that question. All of the automatics in the X5 (GM, ZF, 5 speed, 6 speed, 4.6 variant) have had some amount of failures. Those failures don't appear to have been related to wear out due to overheating or overloading most of the time, but rather sensors, actuators, and random failures that are not precipitated by distance or load. The exceptions to that would be the 4.6 torque converters, and the early diesels (the GM trans was under-spec'd in the first diesels). It is really difficult to engineer in reliability after the product has been designed and manufactured. It involves a long development and testing process; neither is practical for an owner. You can't improve base reliability by doing things that aren't related to the common failure modes, ie replacing the fluid. That particular one usually won't hurt, but it isn't likely to help.

I don't think it is practical to swap in a different automatic. You would give up the electronic integration most likely. You could swap in a manual, but that seems like a lot of work.

Personally, I would just work to reduce the risk to the minimum possible, within the constraints presented. That is why I recommend ZF fluid and OE filters, for example. They aren't necessarily that much better, but they are lower risk.
For clarification--the 4.6 torque convertor does not hold up as it should?

I think changing fluid is better, especially if a common failure works because of the lubrication or fails because of too much friction. I agree, changing the fluid may not prevent common failures but it should not hurt.
__________________
X5 4.6 2002 Black Sap, Black interior. 2013 X5M Melbourne Red, Bamboo interior
Dallas
Reply With Quote
  #105  
Old 10-24-2013, 11:09 AM
bcredliner's Avatar
Premier Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Little Elm,Texas. (40 minutes North of Dallas)
Posts: 8,105
bcredliner is on a distinguished road
I don't think I am making myself clear. As an example--

If we were to take the first post of this thread that lists transmission symptoms and causes,
and, we applied that list to the 5hp24 transmission, how would that list be revised to list problems in descending order, with one being the most common failure?
__________________
X5 4.6 2002 Black Sap, Black interior. 2013 X5M Melbourne Red, Bamboo interior
Dallas
Reply With Quote
  #106  
Old 10-24-2013, 11:14 AM
TiAgX5's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Coppell,TX
Posts: 3,489
TiAgX5 is on a distinguished road
I should have mentioned I have towed a 6000lb trailer for over 10k miles on the Castrol fluid (seen 120deg F on OBC outside temp in stop and go construction traffic, AC on max, over a dozen times in TX). Even towed a +7500lb sport boat/trailer combo twice between PA and NJ shore, picked up dropped off in the PA mountains.
__________________
'03 X5 4.4 Sport, last of the M62s (8-03 build date)
I believe in deadication to craftmanship in a world of mediocrity!
Reply With Quote
  #107  
Old 10-24-2013, 11:44 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Calgary
Posts: 747
Doru is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcredliner View Post
BMW says the fluid lasts a 'lifetime'. I don't recall a communication from BMW saying WARNING--Do not change the transmission fluid. I change the fluid because I believe the capability of the fluid to properly lubricate declines as miles increase.
BMW took it back (the "Lifetime" BS). On the e39 for example, the owners manual - up to 2002, this was exactly what was printed - lifetime fluid. Starting with 2003 (last model year), the print has changed with the 100,000 miles ATF change interval. My owners manual has the 100 k miles ATF change interval. However, if you attempt to do an ATF change at the dealership, I know of 2 different scenarios:
  1. They don't do it, pure & simple (this was my case - I went there and asked for it)
  2. Some select dealerships are doing it for a very hansom bill.
The issue why some aren't doing it (and I speculate here), is because if that tranny wasn't serviced on a regular basis, and now a client pulls in for an ATF change, and after the change, the tranny will grenade itself, the dealer is in for a new ZF (or what the case may be) unit. The proof would be that bill of sale, plus every repair made in a BMW dealership is warrantied for 1 year parts and labor (at least it is here, in my neck of woods).

Actually ZF policy is TO SERVICE the tranny every 100,000 Km or 60,000 miles. Just take a look at this post here, where a different forum member brought the BMW for a tranny service in Germany. I wish we had here in N America the same level of service for those trannies. I would go there 100% sure. The service includes more than changing the ATF. Just read on.
__________________
Stable: e92is, e46 M54B25, e83 N52, e53 N62 - sold, e39 M54B30 R.I.P.
Reply With Quote
  #108  
Old 10-24-2013, 12:04 PM
TiAgX5's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Coppell,TX
Posts: 3,489
TiAgX5 is on a distinguished road
Worth EVERY cent. Why can't ZF provide that service here in the US????
__________________
'03 X5 4.4 Sport, last of the M62s (8-03 build date)
I believe in deadication to craftmanship in a world of mediocrity!
Reply With Quote
  #109  
Old 10-24-2013, 12:10 PM
JCL's Avatar
JCL JCL is offline
Premier Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 11,853
JCL will become famous soon enoughJCL will become famous soon enough
Quote:
Originally Posted by TiAgX5 View Post
I would have gone with the ZF fluid had I researched the topic more throughly B4 my 100k fluid/filter swap. I was listening for trans noise post fluid swap for around a year (20k miles). Now that my trans has gone over 70k on Castrol I will be continuing with it to see if I can get to over 200k (no plan on selling the X, drilled slotted rotors/refinshed calipers/CC pads and KW C'overs are going on soon, sub-10k value on '03 4.4 is not enough $s for overall condition).
I think that is a very reasonable approach, to continue with the fluid that worked for you. My only caution would be that without a spec to conform to, any fluid is subject to changes from time to time and the fluid you buy one year may be different than what you buy a year later. Oil companies are pretty famous for changing their fluids in the interests of marketing, usually calling it reformulation. What the spec does is provide some comfort that there is a standardized fluid being offered.
__________________
2007 X3 3.0si, 6 MT, Premium, White

Retired:
2008 535i, 6 MT, M Sport, Premium, Space Grey
2003 X5 3.0 Steptronic, Premium, Titanium Silver

2002 325xi 5 MT, Steel Grey
2004 Z4 3.0 Premium, Sport, SMG, Maldives Blue
Reply With Quote
  #110  
Old 10-24-2013, 12:20 PM
JCL's Avatar
JCL JCL is offline
Premier Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 11,853
JCL will become famous soon enoughJCL will become famous soon enough
TiAg: I like your signature quote.

Quote:
I believe in deadication to craftmanship in a world of mediocrity!
But we should also be dedicated to craftsmanship in writing, especially if we are going to expound the philosophy.
__________________
2007 X3 3.0si, 6 MT, Premium, White

Retired:
2008 535i, 6 MT, M Sport, Premium, Space Grey
2003 X5 3.0 Steptronic, Premium, Titanium Silver

2002 325xi 5 MT, Steel Grey
2004 Z4 3.0 Premium, Sport, SMG, Maldives Blue
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:12 AM.
vBulletin, Copyright 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0
© 2017 Xoutpost.com. All rights reserved. Xoutpost.com is a private enthusiast site not associated with BMW AG.
The BMW name, marks, M stripe logo, and Roundel logo as well as X3, X5 and X6 designations used in the pages of this Web Site are the property of BMW AG.
This web site is not sponsored or affiliated in any way with BMW AG or any of its subsidiaries.