Bring the troops home immediately. This will cause a decrease in violence as much of the fighting going on is against our troops and we are having no effect at curbing the other infighting.

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my experience on X5world when I spend too much
time posting in political threads in the lounge...

So we cut and run then what happens when civil war breaks out and the neighboring countries take over sections of the country?

Breaks out? (future tense?)

Ummm...apparently you have not been watching the news, but I'll let you in on a little secret. Civil war has already broken out bigtime. Over 34,000 civilians were killed in 2006 alone due to this civil war.

As for neighboring countries taking over sections of Iraq, that is very doubtful. Most of them just want some stability. Having a neighboring country in the midst of civil war is not good for the stability of your own country.

And as far as I know, none of Iraq's neighboring countries have shown any tendencies to being agressive. In fact, I don't think a single one of Iraq's neighbors has ever started a war with anyone except for Syria which did start the 1973 war with Israel (33 years ago). All of their other neighbors are very peaceful countries who have never started a war with anyone.

Stop believing the propoganda that the American media shoves at you, and think logically about this all.

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my experience on X5world when I spend too much
time posting in political threads in the lounge...

BTW, 20 more American soldiers died today in Iraq.

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my experience on X5world when I spend too much
time posting in political threads in the lounge...

Did you ever hear of the Iran-Iraq War.

Sure sit back and won't move in right if we leave.

Guess the media that made that war up.

A country defending itself after being attacked is hardly evidence of that country not being a peaceful country. 90% of the Iraq-Iran war took place in Iranian terrority, and the war was started when Iraq attacked Iran.

Again with the double standard when it comes to viewing other countries and then when viewing the United States and/or Israel. The US and Israel can even attack first when they suspect they may be attacked and that is considered fine, but when another country even defends themselves after being attacked first, they are a rogue nation and warlike, and if their people fight back after their government is overthrown by the invading force, then they are "terrorists". What a double standard you have there.

Discussing anything related to war is useless if you are unable to apply the same rules and logic to other countries that you do to your own country. Next time you are trying to decide what would be best in Iraq, imagine if another country had invaded the United States and we were the ones in middle of civil war. What would your solution be then?

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my experience on X5world when I spend too much
time posting in political threads in the lounge...

Here's some history for you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran-Iraq_War

The war began when Iraq invaded Iran on 22 September 1980 following a long history of border disputes and demands for the overthrow of Saddam Hussein's regime. The conflict saw early successes by the Iraqis, but before long they were repelled and the conflict stabilized into a long war of attrition. The United States Security Council called upon both parties to end the conflict on multiple occasions, but a ceasefire was not agreed to until 20 August 1988, and the last prisoners of war were not exchanged until 2003. The war irrevocably altered politics in the area, playing into wider global politics and leading to the 1990 Iraqi invasion of Kuwait.

The war is also noted for extensive use of chemical by Iraqi forces against Iranian troops, Iranian civilians, and Iraqi Kurds.

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my experience on X5world when I spend too much
time posting in political threads in the lounge...

IMO, coalition troops should be only placed to guard the Iraq borders from outsiders, weapons coming in. Let Iraqi military do the clean up of existing militants inside the country. There is no place for a foreign entity, troops in the middle of a civil war. As strange as it might sound but Saddam, using his horrible means was the only one that controlled it. Todate neither us not Iraq government can find a workable alternative to Saddam in that particular country. It is a tough task to persuade shiites, sunnies, kurds and everyone inbetween to live in peace when you are dealing with simple incompatibility present over tens if not hundreds of years.

DIviding the country is not a workable scenario. Maybe they need to divide their government 1/3-1/3-1/3 ingoring the population ratio. Give that government a chance to ask for help from outside. They might choose China, former Yugoslavian states for input on how to deal with this shit. US, Britain, none of the big guys have had experience like that to be able to draw on the experience in offering possible ways out.

One thing for certain, coalition forces' presence only fuels the situation. We get out. If government falls and new comes into power it will be an internal affair. If a threat, and only a real theat arises from that country for its neighbours and the world we bomb the shit out of them.

The sooner we get out, the more lives will be saved even if we end up with a govenment that does not dance to our tunes or even openly opposes to our way of life, political structure and refusal to mind our own business.

Well put. Bravo.