In that case how do you not condemn his actions in Iraq? How much time do you need to realize that retreat is inevitable. Do you not realize that however terrible Saddam was he has less blood on his hands then Bush not to mention he was doing a better job with Iraq.

If Saddam was the target then its over, get out and let the Arabs solve their own problem.

Going by the French flag you have waiving, I can see why you think retreat is inevitable. Please qualify "better job" in Iraq? You set no definition of what is better? Arabs solve their own problems, that is a contradiction in terms. Arabs haven't solved their own problems for 3000 years not so say Europe has done any better. The area has never been "peaceful" in the written history of its existence. As far as "condemning his actions in Iraq", I don't take the position of some screw ups mean the entire endeavor was incorrect. The world outside the middle-east is safer for the war in Iraq. The war in Iraq and Afghanistan has given terrorist and extremists a central location from which to wage their battles.

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An unwavering defender of those I see worth protecting.

"promote the general welfare, not provide the general welfare"

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Hi guys, i'm back!!!

BTW

XXX isn’t French, he’s from Montenegro!!!!

That’s the 1993 – 2004 Montenegro’s flag; the new one is this one

Attached Images

 

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Minds are like parachutes they only work when they’re open.

Not true at all. The Middle East was very peaceful during the 18th and 19th centuries, while Europe and the United States had constant wars during this time period. Things did not become violent in this area until the Europeans came in the late 19th century.


You make it sound like the number of extremists is a fixed number. If that was the case, we would have killed almost all of them by now. Every day we hear reports that we killed 20, 50, 80, etc. How many are there exactly?

Do you not realize that this war has caused the number of extremists to increase substantially?

I don't buy for a second that any significant number of extremists have come from other countries to Iraq. I think the extremists we are fighting in Iraq are new extremists who were mostly regular Iraqis prior to 2003, and who joined extremist groups after a family member, friend, or someone they knew was killed by US forces, Shiite death squads, or Sunni insurgents. And what is obvious is that the number of extremists is still increasing every day.

War and death makes normal people into extremists.

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my experience on X5world when I spend too much
time posting in political threads in the lounge...

Well you left out everything up until the 18th century....

The number of extremist will increase REGARDLESS of a war. The fact of the matter is these extremists are simply looking for a cause. I saw a picture of a 7 year old with an Al-Sadr shirt on chanting "down with the US". Yeah...sure he has just cause...

As for the French flag F-up, my bad. But I thought someone had a Frenchy comment earlier hahaha.

__________________

An unwavering defender of those I see worth protecting.

"promote the general welfare, not provide the general welfare"

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

I don't believe that at all. Al-Sadr was not even considered an extremist prior to 2004. He originally welcomed the US invasion of Iraq. He only turned on us after we wore out our welcome.

Extremism is fueled by war and violence. Peace and prosperity causes extremism to disappear.

If you want evidence of this, you only have to look at American history between 1865-1875 in the Southern states during the "reconstruction" period. Things were very similar to what you currently have in Iraq. You had an "occupying" force (the union army), and you had a country that was destroyed and war-ravaged with most people having lost family members and friends to the war.

And during this period, you had constant violence, infighting between various groups (white abolitionists, former slave owners, former confederate soldiers, blacks), and you had the formation of extremists groups, the most popular being the Klu Klux Klan. And they were not some small fringe group back then. They had million of members, and were not so unlike Al-Sadr's Mahdi Army. There were battles they had against union troops where the KKK assembled armies numbering in the thousands. You had riots in cities like New Orleans, Atlanta, and Memphis that resulted in thousands of deaths and cities being burned to the ground. I don't doubt that if IEDs were around then, they would most certainly have been used against union soldiers.

And if you study history, you will know that "reconstruction" was considered a total failure. In the end, the union army withdrew, and the southern states set up their Jim Crow laws and did things the way they wanted to. It wasn't until blacks decided to stick up for themselves that things changed.

You cannot force change on people. You must allow the change to happen on its own.

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my experience on X5world when I spend too much
time posting in political threads in the lounge...

Eric, I have to bow my hat to you. You are officially the king of morphing topics to fit your thoughts. You are the next Reagan

Only you could convert a topic of "your thoughts on the Iraq war" into "the KKK".

__________________

An unwavering defender of those I see worth protecting.

"promote the general welfare, not provide the general welfare"

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Other than Eric's cut and run plan what do you suggest should be our approach to the war. And lets leave the KKK out of this.

After 12 pages and 119 posts....I think we have done enough.

__________________

An unwavering defender of those I see worth protecting.

"promote the general welfare, not provide the general welfare"

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.