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  #101  
Old 01-03-2013, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCL View Post
Well, you are referencing teens 16 and up instead of children under 15. But let's say that the reduction in teen gun deaths is of the same magnitude, something less than a 50% reduction according to your link. And let's say that none of the other 26 countries had a similar or corresponding reduction. I'll round the numbers to make the math easier. Half the numerator. Same denominator. Same list of comparison countries.

That would mean that the US now has only six times the firearm related childhood death rate as the nearest other 26 industrialized countries, combined.

And to be clear, you don't think this is an issue, but you will leave it to readers to decide for themselves or not.

OK.

JCL,

What I'm leaving up to the reader are the issues with violence and how it's reported around the world.
I'm not suggesting that I'm comfortable with the amount of deaths or injuries associated with our youth...or leaving that up to the reader. I'd love to see those numbers further reduced. They are trending lower as per the link I provided...in fact, they have been reduced by over 50% since the late 1990's. That's a good trend...but, the numbers still need to come down.
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  #102  
Old 01-03-2013, 12:04 PM
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Question

I think the majority of the English part of the UK are perfectly happy with a Royal Family. On the whole they do us good, but I can't see the relevance to gun control....

The UK does have a problem with knife crime and a much smaller issue with gun crime - because we have banned them from all those other than with a legitimate need. We're not proud of the knife situation and some of it is as a result of parents/schools not being allowed to deal with their kids. This has come under the ridiculously broad 'human rights' legislation - but that's a whole different ballgame, and equally messy!!

In the UK we know that the good guys carrying guns on the streets (ignoring hunters who are usually in the middle of nowhere) are in Uniform or carrying a badge, highly trained, regularly tested under high stress conditions and assessed for their ongoing 'suitability' to carry a gun of any type. If they fail any part, they lose their permits and are off the team. They all know that carrying a firearm is a very serious responsibility and mistakes of any type are not tolerated. A firearms office running amok is likely to be gunned down by one of their own colleagues very quickly (they don't work alone).

In a lot of cases they are only issued with low velocity ammunition and may only draw a weapon under exceptional circumstances, and knowing they will have to fill in all kinds of reports if they do, and if they are wrong and found to be so legally they will be out of that job or jailed. Now like any system it isn't perfect, but it's better than the old less controlled system (the one where innocents died!!). As a former LEO myself, I was in London in the 1980s when guns were more prevalent and we never knew what was behind the next door. I never felt I need to carry a firearm though - EVER. Yes there were instances where I needed to wear a protective vest, but I never got shot at, or stabbed, the jacket was just in case.

Shooting a LEO was (and still is) seen as a major 'do not do' by the criminal fraternity. Only the inner city gangs around today who show precious little respect for anyone or anything are a real issue, and they generally kill each other - with knives. 'Sharps' are something that now also carries a severe penalty - and rightly so as there is no 'need' to carry a knife either.

I believe that most people in the UK would rather have a completely unarmed Police Force, but this is the 21st Century and we have to face unpleasant facts. There are however few shootings, fewer Police or LE shootings and that is a great comfort to most. Zero incidents would be the best, but no system is perfect.

You may not understand the Royal Family, and nor do I expect you to as the US is a Republic, but along with a large part of the UK (and maybe wider?) I do not understand the 'need or right' to bear arms at all times. We used to have much more lax gun laws. People died, innocent people in most cases, and we had the balls to do something about it. It's the lack of action that puzzles me (us) more than anything I guess. I really would like to understand the reasons though. Seriously......
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  #103  
Old 01-03-2013, 12:13 PM
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Reasons??? money... the NRA and the gun lobby makes a killing on the gun sales... always follow the money trait - arms sales are profitable not only on the interantional arena, but also in domestic markets...

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  #104  
Old 01-03-2013, 10:54 PM
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Wow... Pennsylvania Police Chief Proposes ’2nd Amendment Preservation’ Ordinance Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!
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  #105  
Old 01-03-2013, 11:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X5Sport View Post
I think the majority of the English part of the UK are perfectly happy with a Royal Family. On the whole they do us good, but I can't see the relevance to gun control....

The UK does have a problem with knife crime and a much smaller issue with gun crime - because we have banned them from all those other than with a legitimate need. We're not proud of the knife situation and some of it is as a result of parents/schools not being allowed to deal with their kids. This has come under the ridiculously broad 'human rights' legislation - but that's a whole different ballgame, and equally messy!!

In the UK we know that the good guys carrying guns on the streets (ignoring hunters who are usually in the middle of nowhere) are in Uniform or carrying a badge, highly trained, regularly tested under high stress conditions and assessed for their ongoing 'suitability' to carry a gun of any type. If they fail any part, they lose their permits and are off the team. They all know that carrying a firearm is a very serious responsibility and mistakes of any type are not tolerated. A firearms office running amok is likely to be gunned down by one of their own colleagues very quickly (they don't work alone).

In a lot of cases they are only issued with low velocity ammunition and may only draw a weapon under exceptional circumstances, and knowing they will have to fill in all kinds of reports if they do, and if they are wrong and found to be so legally they will be out of that job or jailed. Now like any system it isn't perfect, but it's better than the old less controlled system (the one where innocents died!!). As a former LEO myself, I was in London in the 1980s when guns were more prevalent and we never knew what was behind the next door. I never felt I need to carry a firearm though - EVER. Yes there were instances where I needed to wear a protective vest, but I never got shot at, or stabbed, the jacket was just in case.

Shooting a LEO was (and still is) seen as a major 'do not do' by the criminal fraternity. Only the inner city gangs around today who show precious little respect for anyone or anything are a real issue, and they generally kill each other - with knives. 'Sharps' are something that now also carries a severe penalty - and rightly so as there is no 'need' to carry a knife either.

I believe that most people in the UK would rather have a completely unarmed Police Force, but this is the 21st Century and we have to face unpleasant facts. There are however few shootings, fewer Police or LE shootings and that is a great comfort to most. Zero incidents would be the best, but no system is perfect.

You may not understand the Royal Family, and nor do I expect you to as the US is a Republic, but along with a large part of the UK (and maybe wider?) I do not understand the 'need or right' to bear arms at all times. We used to have much more lax gun laws. People died, innocent people in most cases, and we had the balls to do something about it. It's the lack of action that puzzles me (us) more than anything I guess. I really would like to understand the reasons though. Seriously......

You said it...America is a Republic. Individual rights outweigh the rights of a majority. We should ALWAYS defend the rights for our individual liberties. For if we don't, we lose not only one...but all. Sadly, we're probably about to find out if we have the stomach to actually preserve this Republic.

First and Second Amendments are under attack in a major way right now. The Fourth with TSA has been attacked. The Tenth is also under attack.

So, from my perspective...they're either pushing us toward a civil war, or this country is about to just roll over and swallow the collectivist state that these libs are pushing for.

I don't know, I'm not a Constitutional Lawyer. I only know what I was taught as a child in school...and it doesn't jive with what's being taught today.

All that said, I think the straw that will "break the camel's back" will be gun confiscation. Sadly, the wrong people will end up dead and the PTB will continue their agenda after the dust settles.
If they confiscate slowly...not rush in too quickly, it's possible to avoid a civil war. They'd just wear 'em down until the will to fight is broken.

I really don't know what's going to happen. I just know that I'd prefer my country not change structurally from the vision of the Founding Fathers.

Anyway, all of it adds up to wanting some form of protection from tyranny and the ability to ultimately preserve the Republic.
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  #106  
Old 01-04-2013, 11:21 AM
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So Democracy - which is what America says it is all about has gone out of the window then? And as for Civil War and Tyranny.........say what!!? This is the US we're talking about. THE Great Democracy....not some 3rd World Dictatorship who know no better.

Are you really saying the the sane majority (and I am making an assumption here I know) of the US Population will really go to war with their own Government over this? Really?

OK. You are clearly at one end of the range of views - as you have every right to be, so that's fine and I'm not being critical of that at all - what about those on here who are the middle or opposite side of the argument?
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  #107  
Old 01-04-2013, 12:44 PM
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well... some folks take the right to bear arms a bit too far... Now i understand why so many are installing the tow package...
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  #108  
Old 01-04-2013, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by X5Sport View Post
So Democracy - which is what America says it is all about has gone out of the window then? And as for Civil War and Tyranny.........say what!!? This is the US we're talking about. THE Great Democracy....not some 3rd World Dictatorship who know no better.

Are you really saying the the sane majority (and I am making an assumption here I know) of the US Population will really go to war with their own Government over this? Really?

OK. You are clearly at one end of the range of views - as you have every right to be, so that's fine and I'm not being critical of that at all - what about those on here who are the middle or opposite side of the argument?


I think you're confused...America wasn't founded as a Democracy...it was founded as a Republic.
It is this TRUTH that the world should understand.
Democracy is a lie...when referring to America. Sure, they use the term like it's the same thing as being a Republic. Massive mind f'k.

I get the feeling like there's some moral judgement here?! Not necessarily in this particular post...but, maybe an overall theme from those that support banning guns? Like you're standing on some moral high ground...while America is morally void due to the 2nd Amendment.

If you guys want to talk about morality...we'll talk morality and let's see what's worse...America's 2nd Amendment or Govt's that have killed millions upon millions of INNOCENT civilians...that now want us to disarm or abolish the 2nd Amendment. Well, for that matter...the millions that my own country has slaughtered through illegal wars! No outrage over that! Oh boy.


As a matter of fact...how about ABORTION???? Really, let's get into the moral issues of society today. What's worse...2nd Amendment or abortions?

Since Roe v. Wade...some 50 million unborn CHILDREN MURDERED in the USA. There are roughly 3000 unborn children murdered DAILY here in the USA...no outrage over that?

Nah, you and the others just want us disarmed...since we must be the "real" threat to society and our children!

Oh, it's all about the CHILDREN, right!?

AND, if you think that I'm extreme...you really are sheltered. I'm mild. I just want the Constitution abided by and my individual rights protected...even when the majority is against it! This is NOT a Democracy...though they're doing their damnedest to make it into something other than a Republic.

Hope that clears things up a bit. I'm really done with this thread. Good topic. It's been beaten to death...nothing left to say...except:

DON'T TREAD ON ME!
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Last edited by tynashracing; 01-04-2013 at 05:45 PM.
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  #109  
Old 01-04-2013, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tynashracing View Post
I get the feeling like there's some moral judgement here?! Not necessarily in this particular post...but, maybe an overall theme from those that support banning guns?
I thought the thread was about controlling guns, not banning them. Like your second amendment says, "a well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state...." So why the jump from control/regulation all the way to banning?

No response to the whole abortion hijack. Not sure gun control has anything to do with abortion. Unless you want to arm the unborn in the interests of self defence.
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  #110  
Old 01-05-2013, 11:46 AM
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So, it was reported on Fox News this morning...

Per FBI stats...more people killed with hammers and clubs than rifles each year.

Oh no...I've got at least 4 or 5 of those "Lethal Assault Weapons".

I've got a small wooden handle hammer for light work..but it's precise.

I've somehow managed to acquire a couple of rubber mallets...easy to swing...but don't do much damage...if you know what I mean

There's also one of the newer style hammers with the composite material and heavier head. Nice waffle texture built into the head...to really help prevent a glancing blow. It's pretty heavy and is great for a bigger job!

Next, I've got the small sledge hammer...10 lb...I think it's referred to as a "pony"...it's the short handled variety. Good for when you can't rear back and really whack it. But, it's quite effective from a short distance.

Then there's the mother of all hammers...The 20lb bash. Just get to swing'n and watch 'em drop.

Look out boys and girls...I'd say with stats like this...we're gonna have to register our hammers and clubs. Who knows, we might even see some kind of legislation to begin banning them?!

After they're done with hammers...I'm sure the attention will be turned to Spoons and Forks...those are making people fat! I mean, look how many fat kids there are today...Do what's right...ban spoons and forks from all fat people !


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