Home Forums Articles How To's FAQ Register
Go Back   Xoutpost.com > Off-topic > The Lounge
Fluid Motor Union
User Name
Password
Member List Premier Membership Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Xoutpost server transfer and maintenance is occurring....
Xoutpost is currently undergoing a planned server migration.... stay tuned for new developments.... sincerely, the management


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #61  
Old 12-31-2012, 10:46 AM
brian5's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: CT, USA
Posts: 2,925
brian5 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebound View Post
Stereotype much?
Unfortunately, yes. Stereotyping is one way to help describe the mess that this country has got it itself into with its lack of gun controls and the ability of those with mental health issues to lay their hands on these deadly weapons.

Just because the Second Amendment, adopted in 1791, says that people have the right to keep and bear arms, doesn't mean that it shouldn't be revisited now. The USA, and the rest of the world, has changed a lot in that time... The atrocities that have been committed in recent years bear witness to that.

EDIT: After reviewing this thread again today, I'm unsubscribing. There are some pretty inane arguments by the gun advocates.

Last edited by brian5; 12-31-2012 at 10:56 AM.
Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links

  #62  
Old 12-31-2012, 11:19 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 215
tynashracing is on a distinguished road
Gun control to save innocent lives, right?

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/...er-disarm.html

Activist Post: Back to the Future: What History Teaches About Gun Confiscations

Death by "Gun Control"
__________________
2002 4.4 Sport
134k miles and counting
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 12-31-2012, 08:33 PM
noncom23's Avatar
Premier Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Big D
Posts: 6,521
noncom23 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian5 View Post
Unfortunately, yes. Stereotyping is one way to help describe the mess that this country has got it itself into with its lack of gun controls and the ability of those with mental health issues to lay their hands on these deadly weapons.

Just because the Second Amendment, adopted in 1791, says that people have the right to keep and bear arms, doesn't mean that it shouldn't be revisited now. The USA, and the rest of the world, has changed a lot in that time... The atrocities that have been committed in recent years bear witness to that.

EDIT: After reviewing this thread again today, I'm unsubscribing. There are some pretty inane arguments by the gun advocates.
Ok. Call a constitutional convention and revisit it.
__________________
Mike F
Current: 2017 Grand Cherokee HEMI
2017 Kawasaki ZX-14r
2017 Harley RG Ultra
2017 Harley Fatboy S
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 01-01-2013, 11:07 PM
PersonaNonGrata's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 7,749
PersonaNonGrata is on a distinguished road
One of the many reasons this national "discussion" will never be genuine and productive.

Celebrities call for an end to gun violence.



And the hypocrisy of it all.



Celebrities are hardly the policy makers of the world and should not be looked to as role models but they are. They are influential. Hollywood helped Obama win both times. We may not consider celebrity opinions anything more than white noise but unfortunately the have a loud voice and many do listen to them. Therefore, it is only proper that their own hypocrisy be shown.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 01-02-2013, 12:20 AM
TerminatorX5's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Stafford, VA & Harrisburg, PA - USA
Posts: 5,735
TerminatorX5 is on a distinguished road
I am not a celebrity... in post #50 I am holding a fully automatic assault rifle in my hands... i have used AK-74 earlier in my life... I have used some small caliber weapons in my life... not against people, all was in training environment...

And knowing what those weapons can do, I am still against them in the hands of general population... while it is possible to kill with bare hands, the use of killing tools makes the killing so much easier... so, it is only natural to restrict the sale of those things - the other day i wanted to buy a bottle of champagne, but the sales clerk said, sorry, it is past midnight... wow... strict alcohol rules... if i buy booze after midnight - i am in trouble... if i buy booze for an underage, i am in trouble... if i buy him a weapon - no biggy deal...

weapons have serial numbers, cars have VINs... we could have national registry (or state registry) for those things... and the notion, that next step will be taking those weapons away is nonsense - in 200 years nobody took them away, and i am sure in the next 200 years will not be much different...

besides, the weapon bearers should serve in the state sponsored militia anyways...

Does all of that make me a hypocrat?
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 01-02-2013, 12:36 AM
PersonaNonGrata's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 7,749
PersonaNonGrata is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by TerminatorX5 View Post
I am not a celebrity... in post #50 I am holding a fully automatic assault rifle in my hands... i have used AK-74 earlier in my life... I have used some small caliber weapons in my life... not against people, all was in training environment...

And knowing what those weapons can do, I am still against them in the hands of general population... while it is possible to kill with bare hands, the use of killing tools makes the killing so much easier... so, it is only natural to restrict the sale of those things - the other day i wanted to buy a bottle of champagne, but the sales clerk said, sorry, it is past midnight... wow... strict alcohol rules... if i buy booze after midnight - i am in trouble... if i buy booze for an underage, i am in trouble... if i buy him a weapon - no biggy deal...

weapons have serial numbers, cars have VINs... we could have national registry (or state registry) for those things... and the notion, that next step will be taking those weapons away is nonsense - in 200 years nobody took them away, and i am sure in the next 200 years will not be much different...

besides, the weapon bearers should serve in the state sponsored militia anyways...

Does all of that make me a hypocrat?
It makes you no less of a hypocrite than me, a gun owner who believes in the Second Amendment and ownership of so-called "assault weapons", in saying I think there should be regulation and some people should not be allowed to owner or possess guns. You being someone familiar with and required to possess guns for work purposes and having views that call for controls of civilian ownership is not hypocrisy. The only thing I would point out with your post is that you are holding a "fully automatic" weapon and that is not available to the general public. You are holding it, presumably based on your previous posts, as part of Department of Defense operations. I want to mention this because some people think that someone can run out and buy a "machine gun" easily. They cannot. Federal and state law have very, very strict laws about this class (Class III) of weapons.

Why the celebrities are hypocrites is because they are very publicly and very politically demanding something be done to end gun violence yet what they do very publicly and with tremendous recompense, is portray, depict, perpetuate, and glamorize very violent acts committed with the very guns they demand be legislated up to and including outright bans. As I continually say, it's not about the guns. It's about behavior. It's about societal views, norms, mores, and attitudes. I don't think it is remotely possible to end gun violence without considering the kind of violence these celebrities make their millions on.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 01-02-2013, 01:00 AM
TerminatorX5's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Stafford, VA & Harrisburg, PA - USA
Posts: 5,735
TerminatorX5 is on a distinguished road
I read James Fenimore Cooper, and the pioneers there had weapons... naturally, hostile environment, one needs to shoot first, ask questions later...
now days, we pretend to be a civilized society, the light of free world in the darkness of the tyranny, blah, blah, blah... and yet, when Katrina struck, the looting started... any otherwise peaceful gathering can turn into something violent real fast, i think even the latest camping outside the Wall Street was not immune to that...

in such a violent environment any disruption to normal daily grind may prove fatal - someone losing his otherwise normal mind and going bazookas... even mental health control will not help in identifying a perfect normal dude going biserk - i think, there was a movie (a movie, i know... but we don't read anymore, we watch), about some regular dude going crazy and killing people, i think either Douglas senior, or junior was in that movie... I need to do a search about that one...

my point is, it is very dangerous to have weapons distributed in the society that is not really stable - look at the fiscal cliff, and the debt ceiling, and the whole other plethora of things that are wrong here... V.Lenin said once that he can build a government that even a last maid can operate (кухарка)... sometimes it feels that he had succeeded here, in the States...
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 01-02-2013, 01:20 AM
PersonaNonGrata's Avatar
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 7,749
PersonaNonGrata is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by TerminatorX5 View Post
I read James Fenimore Cooper, and the pioneers there had weapons... naturally, hostile environment, one needs to shoot first, ask questions later...
now days, we pretend to be a civilized society, the light of free world in the darkness of the tyranny, blah, blah, blah... and yet, when Katrina struck, the looting started... any otherwise peaceful gathering can turn into something violent real fast, i think even the latest camping outside the Wall Street was not immune to that...

in such a violent environment any disruption to normal daily grind may prove fatal - someone losing his otherwise normal mind and going bazookas... even mental health control will not help in identifying a perfect normal dude going biserk - i think, there was a movie (a movie, i know... but we don't read anymore, we watch), about some regular dude going crazy and killing people, i think either Douglas senior, or junior was in that movie... I need to do a search about that one...

my point is, it is very dangerous to have weapons distributed in the society that is not really stable - look at the fiscal cliff, and the debt ceiling, and the whole other plethora of things that are wrong here... V.Lenin said once that he can build a government that even a last maid can operate (кухарка)... sometimes it feels that he had succeeded here, in the States...
The movie you are thinking of is "Falling Down" with Michael Douglas.

We probably won't agree on this but the very things you listed are why civilian ownership of guns is necessary. Katrina brought out the most vicious and opportunistic parasites who would slit a throat for some loot. Without a means of defense, many more people would have been victimized. Those who were armed were far less likely to be victims. If something like the "Fiscal Cliff" causes civil unrest and riots, be sure that there will be the same kind of vicious opportunistic jackals preying upon defenseless people. Again, these events are not about guns and the risk they pose so much as a testament to what some people will do to other human beings and why those human beings need the option to defend themselves.

Katrina proved also that law enforcement is incapable of protecting everyone in the best of circumstances much less in a critical incident or disaster scenario. Hell, the cops in New Orleans were as dangerous as the criminals but that is a different story. As the great sayings goes, "I carry a .45 because a cop is too heavy" and "When seconds count, a cop is only minutes away".
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 01-02-2013, 02:02 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 215
tynashracing is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by PersonaNonGrata View Post
The movie you are thinking of is "Falling Down" with Michael Douglas.

We probably won't agree on this but the very things you listed are why civilian ownership of guns is necessary. Katrina brought out the most vicious and opportunistic parasites who would slit a throat for some loot. Without a means of defense, many more people would have been victimized. Those who were armed were far less likely to be victims. If something like the "Fiscal Cliff" causes civil unrest and riots, be sure that there will be the same kind of vicious opportunistic jackals preying upon defenseless people. Again, these events are not about guns and the risk they pose so much as a testament to what some people will do to other human beings and why those human beings need the option to defend themselves.

Katrina proved also that law enforcement is incapable of protecting everyone in the best of circumstances much less in a critical incident or disaster scenario. Hell, the cops in New Orleans were as dangerous as the criminals but that is a different story. As the great sayings goes, "I carry a .45 because a cop is too heavy" and "When seconds count, a cop is only minutes away".


Bravo! Excellent remarks...It's times like NOW that we should remain armed.

Yeah, I think some of the opportunist during Katrina may have even been the "good" guys...so I hear! Seems there are times when you might not be able to tell the good guys from the bad. Sucks.
__________________
2002 4.4 Sport
134k miles and counting
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 01-02-2013, 02:22 AM
TerminatorX5's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Stafford, VA & Harrisburg, PA - USA
Posts: 5,735
TerminatorX5 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by tynashracing View Post
Bravo! Excellent remarks...It's times like NOW that we should remain armed.

Yeah, I think some of the opportunist during Katrina may have even been the "good" guys...so I hear! Seems there are times when you might not be able to tell the good guys from the bad. Sucks.
that is my point - even the best guy/good guy can turn bad... even if his intentions are good, he still can render harm, just by being incompetent in the area of law enforcement... a guy could be genius in computer programming, or can put an engine together with his eyes closed... but he is not competent in law enforcement - and the mentality, shoot first, ask questions later might work, if the results were not lethal... I would not have problems, if everyone had a non-lethal weapon... the problme with lethal weapons is that the culprit does not have a CHANCE to stand trial, as guaranteed by the same Constitution... the judgement, the trial, the verdict, the execution are all carried out at once. If s/he is incapacitated for a period of time, than there is a chance for a fair trial.


i've read a story long time ago, and will grossly paraphrase it:
say there is a woman playing with her big mastiff in a park, and the dog is really nice... it so happened that a wild tribeman is in the park, and his tribe never seen any dogs in their lives... he sees a woman being attacked by huge animal and he shoots the animal dead with a dart in an attempt to save to woman... Best intentions... good guy... armed... worst results... not to say that a cop can't be incompetent...

If the tribesman was armed with a less-than-lethal weapon, then the whole thing would have been less stressful... I am not comparing life of a dog to a life of a human - human life bears much more value...
What happened to all values that we hold dear? We are crying over spilt blood and want to spill more to prevent the bloodshed... strange logic...
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:12 PM.
vBulletin, Copyright 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0
2017 Xoutpost.com. All rights reserved. Xoutpost.com is a private enthusiast site not associated with BMW AG.
The BMW name, marks, M stripe logo, and Roundel logo as well as X3, X5 and X6 designations used in the pages of this Web Site are the property of BMW AG.
This web site is not sponsored or affiliated in any way with BMW AG or any of its subsidiaries.