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  #91  
Old 01-02-2013, 11:55 PM
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i already unsubscribed from this thread once, but then got sucked in again... I think i will leave once more... JCL, some folks watch too much Rambo movies and think that a gun can resolve everything... same mentality carries on overboard when the gun seems to be a solution to resolve the lost GF, lost opportunity... If a poet resolves his life problems by writing tragedies, or, when he is in a good mood, writing comedies (I am oversimplifying this), a person who thinks that GOOD can be done by super-violence, will do BAD using the same tools... the tools of choice - weapons...

The mankind has written history for last few millenia - and this has been always the same, a well armed civilian population is a clear threat to the authorities, and to itself... that is why many warlords would disarm the population...

Besides, if the weapons can do good, why are we so worried about the Iran's test of a missile? after all, they say that the bad guys are us, and they are the good guys... lol... everything is in the eye of a beholder...

Last edited by TerminatorX5; 01-02-2013 at 11:58 PM. Reason: spelling
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  #92  
Old 01-03-2013, 12:02 AM
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Originally Posted by tynashracing View Post
All very good points Terminator. I do agree that PROPER training is important for everyone's safety. Don't restrict my potential for arming because your mom might pose more of a risk to herself or others while handling a firearm.

Did you see that video in one of the links I provided about the guns being confiscated in N.O. during Katrina? That woman was quite elderly...but, I'd trust her with a firearm. Notice how she said she was handling the gun when the goons tackled her to disarm her?
This kind of reminds me of people that have a license to drive a vehicle...when they probably really shouldn't. Life just can't be made risk less...well, I suppose you could lock yourself in a prison cell to avoid...life in this world.

You know, I've said for most of my life that I'd probably be a victim of gun violence...because I'm so adamant about protecting our rights as Americans. Our founding fathers thought it was our responsibility to keep things in check. I didn't even own a gun until about 3 years ago...but, have always tried to speak up for those who do carry.
I can see the need for more widespread gun ownership in America if the number of LEO's are let go. I hope it doesn't happen. I hope this country doesn't hit as low as some predict. If it does, it's going to be ugly and I will do everything I can to protect my loved ones.
upholding one constitutional right (bear arms in well regulated State militia) and ignoring the other constituational right (right to a FAIR TRIAL) - does not sit with me too well... I already made my point that in CIVILIZED, LAW-ABIDING society, there is NO ROOM for vigilantes.

either the law trumps everything, or everything trumps the law...
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  #93  
Old 01-03-2013, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by TerminatorX5 View Post
i already unsubscribed from this thread once, but then got sucked in again... I think i will leave once more... JCL, some folks watch too much Rambo movies and think that a gun can resolve everything...
I'm not here for TNR, logic doesn't work in that debate, IMO.

Here is my philosophy. There are lots of good people who have strongly held beliefs on the gun issue, on each side. Call it 25% each way. They aren't likely to change their minds. That's their right. Then there are the 50% of the population who are in the middle. They are the ones who will eventually change the laws.

Might take a long time. But it will be worth it, if it happens. Because the past 20 years don't constitute a good run, in terms of acceptable collateral damage. Again, IMO.
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  #94  
Old 01-03-2013, 12:33 AM
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nothing will change until the sh!t hits home... look at the Sandy issue with the outgoing congress - the Republican Governor and the Republican Congressmen revolted against their own speaker when the Sandy relief vote did not come to the floor for the ENTITLEMENTS to their constituents!!! for god sake, the republicans always kept saying, that folks need to be insured (insurance, is another form of socilaism, when the risk of few is born by many)... until it hit THEIR home...

Same goes with abortions - life is precious, and any pregnancy must be seen to the birth of a baby... until his own daughter is pregnant from some biker who is long gone... them an abortion is in order... it is so easy to regulate other people's lives...

As a matter of fact, with the abortions - every baby deserve to be born, so the rights of an unborn child are PROTECTED... the moment the baby is born, the same people deny the welfare benefits to the baby - where are the parents who brought the kid into the life, lets make them pay for the baby...

this land is full of paradoxes... but i am flying off on a tangent here...
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  #95  
Old 01-03-2013, 12:36 AM
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Originally Posted by TerminatorX5 View Post
upholding one constitutional right (bear arms in well regulated State militia) and ignoring the other constituational right (right to a FAIR TRIAL) - does not sit with me too well... I already made my point that in CIVILIZED, LAW-ABIDING society, there is NO ROOM for vigilantes.

either the law trumps everything, or everything trumps the law...

Who said anything about vigilantes? Who said anything about not preserving the right to a fair trial?
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  #96  
Old 01-03-2013, 12:41 AM
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283 million, give or take.

"The overall firearm related death rate among US children younger than 15 years of age is nearly 12 times higher than among children in 25 other industrialized nations combined."

I am tremendously saddened to hear that this constitutes a pretty good run.

Link here: The U.S. Compared to Other Nations

Do they cite the population difference between US and other countries? Percentages can be used very effectively in manipulating a desired outcome.
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  #97  
Old 01-03-2013, 12:44 AM
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Who said anything about vigilantes? Who said anything about not preserving the right to a fair trial?
once you shoot a robber or a mugger - you deny him a right to a fair trial... your point is that he has a gun and is threatening your life.. the gun control point is, that there should be NO guns in people's hands... hunting gear excluded... there are many countries where that is the law of the land... of course, it is not American way... but our way has brought us to too many avoidable tragedies... supposedly there are 300 million firearms in the hands of private individuals in the US. I am sure there are 3 billion knives inthe circulation... people kill other people with knives too - but how many people can one kill with a knife and how many he can kill with a semi-auto weapon....

by the same argument, we should be able to buy bazookas - why not?... it can be born on a person...

while i am personally for the far extreme, i am totally ok with banning the MAN-HUNTING weapons, and i am ok to let people keep their pistols, revolvers, whatnot... I am for a compromise, i don't think going too far in any direction is good...

And those who keep it must take the "drivers" test, to get a license to have the weapon - at least they should be able to load/unload the weapon, and shoot in the direction of a target...
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  #98  
Old 01-03-2013, 12:48 AM
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Originally Posted by tynashracing View Post
Do they cite the population difference between US and other countries? Percentages can be used very effectively in manipulating a desired outcome.
That is why they reference the rate instead of the number of deaths. Feel free to read the link with sources.

Still feeling good about that 20 year run?
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  #99  
Old 01-03-2013, 01:09 AM
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That is why they reference the rate instead of the number of deaths. Feel free to read the link with sources.

Still feeling good about that 20 year run?

That's like asking if Britain is happy about their reduction in violent crimes.

Accidental death rate for children falls The Chart - CNN.com Blogs
Teen Homicide, Suicide, and Firearm Deaths | Child Trends Databank
"Trends in firearm-related deaths (homicides and suicides, as well as deaths from unintended injuries) have followed a similar pattern for teens ages 15 to 19, with rates declining dramatically during the late 1990s, from 24.5 per 100,000 in 1995, to 13.1 per 100,000 in 2000. As with the homicide rate, the firearm-related death rate fluctuated slightly between 2000 and 2006, before decreasing to 10.6 deaths per 100,000 in 2010, the lowest rate on record." (Figure 1)


Not to mention how many of these issues are GANG related! I'm too tired to go back and quote more...every reader can decide if we've got this massive issue today or not. And if so, is it with gangs or little Johnny across the street.
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  #100  
Old 01-03-2013, 02:07 AM
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Originally Posted by tynashracing View Post
Teen Homicide, Suicide, and Firearm Deaths | Child Trends Databank

I'm too tired to go back and quote more...every reader can decide if we've got this massive issue today or not.
Well, you are referencing teens 16 and up instead of children under 15. But let's say that the reduction in teen gun deaths is of the same magnitude, something less than a 50% reduction according to your link. And let's say that none of the other 26 countries had a similar or corresponding reduction. I'll round the numbers to make the math easier. Half the numerator. Same denominator. Same list of comparison countries.

That would mean that the US now has only six times the firearm related childhood death rate as the nearest other 26 industrialized countries, combined.

And to be clear, you don't think this is an issue, but you will leave it to readers to decide for themselves or not.

OK.
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