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  #111  
Old 01-05-2013, 11:57 AM
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I thought you left the thread... I have left it twice, and it suckers me back !!! hahaha...
did the Fox News (excellent source of information!!! hahaha) mention ho many MASS clubbngs were out there? with so many deaths reported, the ratio of a murderer/victim can not be 1-to-1, can it? and how many of those "clubbers" committed suicide by the club (or, hammer). And if the responders had clubs (or hammers)... So, the chances are, the clubbers went to a fair trial, which is guaranteed by the Constitution... with semi-automatic rifles or handguns, did all murderers get caught? either escaped, since they committed murder at a distance (say, drive-by), or committed suicide, or got whacked by the cops or a vigilante...

I love Fox statistics, they look at a car, see two wheels on one side and then they claim there are more motorcycles, since each car is equal to two bikes!!! and the best - they really believe what they say!!!!

oh, in some places they DO ban the forks - very effective weapon, as a matter of fact (if we have enough "forking", a fork legislature should be introduced)
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  #112  
Old 01-05-2013, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tynashracing View Post
So, it was reported on Fox News this morning...

Per FBI stats...more people killed with hammers and clubs than rifles each year.
You really have to look more broadly than Fox News. Seriously. You are not putting yourself in a good light here.

For 18 years worth of FBI statistics, with 14,000 to 23,000 murders per year, guns were used in 58% to 70% of those murders, depending on the year. Yes, there more more handguns used than rifles, but long guns still accounted for around 12% of murders.

All blunt objects (including your favourite hammers, but also all other types of blunt objects) were used in 4% to 6% of murders. So, it looks like guns are about 12 times more likely to be used in a murder in the US than all blunt objects combined.

Bare hands and feet were used in 5% to 7% of murders.

So it looks like it is safer to have hammers in your hands than nothing. Somebody should tell Fox News.

Data above is from the FBI Uniform Crime Reports. This link shows 18 years of data, but isn't as recent as it could be.

Murder Victims--Circumstances and Weapons Used or Cause of Death statistics - USA Census numbers

Fox News (and their ilk) are ridiculous. Look to real data sources. Remember the discussion we had above on critical thinking? Use multiple sources. Verify the data. And try to use logic, reason and judgement.

Based on past posts, this is usually where you claim you are just posting a link, and that you aren't responsible for the content of it. BS. You are spreading nonsense. Trouble is, some may believe you. And you will be partly responsible for the continuing dumbing down of society. Congratulations.
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  #113  
Old 01-05-2013, 05:50 PM
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Since we are on the topic of numbers and statistics, and their frequent misuse, thought I would include this. It is talking about 2012 election results, and organizations such as the "news source" referred to above, many of whom forecast otherwise, but it is equally applicable to those who would use numbers to try and spin a story. Any story.


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  #114  
Old 01-05-2013, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TerminatorX5 View Post
I thought you left the thread... I have left it twice, and it suckers me back !!! hahaha...
did the Fox News (excellent source of information!!! hahaha) mention ho many MASS clubbngs were out there? with so many deaths reported, the ratio of a murderer/victim can not be 1-to-1, can it? and how many of those "clubbers" committed suicide by the club (or, hammer). And if the responders had clubs (or hammers)... So, the chances are, the clubbers went to a fair trial, which is guaranteed by the Constitution... with semi-automatic rifles or handguns, did all murderers get caught? either escaped, since they committed murder at a distance (say, drive-by), or committed suicide, or got whacked by the cops or a vigilante...

I love Fox statistics, they look at a car, see two wheels on one side and then they claim there are more motorcycles, since each car is equal to two bikes!!! and the best - they really believe what they say!!!!

oh, in some places they DO ban the forks - very effective weapon, as a matter of fact (if we have enough "forking", a fork legislature should be introduced)

Evidently, some people in this lounge don't know when to LAUGH!!! You at least seem to have a sense of humor Terminator.
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  #115  
Old 01-05-2013, 06:12 PM
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JCL ...It was supposed to be FUNNY. OMG
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  #116  
Old 01-05-2013, 07:52 PM
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Your Fox News reference wasn't supposed to be funny. Just your attempt at humour on hammers was. Guess I didn't think it was very funny.

OTOH, I found the cartoon on pundits who don't use statistics correctly to be very funny. Provided for your enjoyment.
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  #117  
Old 01-09-2013, 04:21 PM
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As he says. Nothing new.
But stats havn't changed.






Do Gun Bans Reduce Violent Crime? Ask the Aussies and Brits
BY GLEN TSCHIRGI
5 months, 2 weeks ago
(H/T Instapundit)

Nothing original to add here, but this posting I picked up from Instapundit is well worth passing along, particularly in light of the typical, knee-jerk, Statist reactions to the horrific Aurora CO shootings:

Actually, if the Australian Bureau of Criminology can be believed, Americans would be insane to concern themselves with what non-Americans think about American gun rights.

In 2002 — five years after enacting its gun ban — the Australian Bureau of Criminology acknowledged there is no correlation between gun control and the use of firearms in violent crime. In fact, the percent of murders committed with a firearm was the highest it had ever been in 2006 (16.3 percent), says the D.C. Examiner.

Even Australia’s Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research acknowledges that the gun ban had no significant impact on the amount of gun-involved crime:

In 2006, assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
Sexual assault — Australia’s equivalent term for rape — increased 29.9 percent.
Overall, Australia’s violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.

Moreover, Australia and the United States — where no gun-ban exists — both experienced similar decreases in murder rates:

Between 1995 and 2007, Australia saw a 31.9 percent decrease; without a gun ban, America’s rate dropped 31.7 percent.
During the same time period, all other violent crime indices increased in Australia: assault rose 49.2 percent and robbery 6.2 percent.
Sexual assault — Australia’s equivalent term for rape — increased 29.9 percent.
Overall, Australia’s violent crime rate rose 42.2 percent.
At the same time, U.S. violent crime decreased 31.8 percent: rape dropped 19.2 percent; robbery decreased 33.2 percent; aggravated assault dropped 32.2 percent.
Australian women are now raped over three times as often as American women.

So, if the USA follows Australia’s lead in banning guns, it should expect a 42 percent increase in violent crime, a higher percentage of murders committed with a gun, and three times more rape. One wonders if Freddy even bothered to look up the relative crime statistics.

The International Crime Victims Survey, conducted by Leiden University in Holland, found that England and Wales ranked second overall in violent crime among industrialized nations. Twenty-six percent of English citizens — roughly one-quarter of the population — have been victimized by violent crime. Australia led the list with more than 30 percent of its population victimized. The United States didn’t even make the “top 10″ list of industrialized nations whose citizens were victimized by crime.

Now all this statistical and factual information isn’t going to mean anything to Lefty’s and Statists, but it is always good to know that reality backs up the conservative position on gun rights and the 2nd Amendment.

Guns,Second Amendment,Second Amendment Quick Hits
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  #118  
Old 01-12-2013, 04:15 AM
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Noncom23:

I wasn't going to respond, since we discussed the reduction in gun violence in other countries earlier in this thread. But tynashracing, in another thread, felt slighted. So here it is.

I realize you didn't write this, that it is a clip from a blog.

Still, there doesn't actually appear to be an Australian Bureau of Criminology. It appears to have been made up by someone hoping that nobody would check. In fact, gun violence in Australia is down significantly since gun controls were brought in. The story, plus lots of graphs, data, links, and sources, at this link:

cameronreilly.com | The Facts About Guns In Australia
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  #119  
Old 01-12-2013, 07:59 AM
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JCL

Do you own any guns, by the way?

First:


Australian Bureau of Statistics:

Australian Bureau of Statistics


4530.0 - Crime Victimisation, Australia, 2010-11




Next:

I don't really see an astoundng change here. Yes reported homicides
are down, but robbery is climbing.
Assaults are up horribly.



Australian Institute of Criminology - Home


Victims of violent crime statistics
Victims of violent crimes from 1996 to 2007 (number)

Homicid Assault Sexual assault Robbery Kidnapping

1996 354 114,156 14,542 16,372 478
1997 364 124,500 14,353 21,305 564
1998 334 130,903 14,689 23,801 707
1999 385 134,271 14,699 22,606 766
2000 362 138,708 16,406 23,336 695
2001 347 152,283 17,577 26,591 767
2002 366 159,548 18,718 20,989 706
2003 341 157,280 18,025 19,709 696
2004 302 156,849 19,171 16,513 768
2005 301 166,507 18,695 17,176 730
2006 322 172,441 19,555 17,375 725
2007 282 176,427 19,781 17,988 730

Assaults continue to represent the majority of recorded violent crimes. The overall trend since 1996 has been upward, with an increase of 55 percent between 1996 and 2007.
The trend in sexual assault has also followed a general increase. The highest numbers of victims of sexual assault and of assault were recorded in 2007.
There were 282 victims of homicide in 2007: a 12 percent decrease from 2006 and the lowest number recorded in the past 12 years.
Continuing the trend since 2004, robbery offences increased again in 2007, to 17,988.
The number of recorded kidnappings fluctuates from year to year. From 1996 to 2004, kidnappings registered a general increase, but the number of victims of kidnapping has remained relatively steady following a decline in 2005.
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Last edited by noncom23; 01-12-2013 at 11:00 AM.
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  #120  
Old 01-12-2013, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noncom23 View Post
JCL

Do you own any guns, by the way?

First:


Australian Bureau of Statistics:

<snip>
Not sure why it matters, but no. Several family members living in separate households do. They hunt deer, elk, moose, etc. Not people.

If we are talking gun control, shouldn't we look at gun violence? If you want to look at all violence you are going to have to consider a lot more causal factors, you can't just attribute it to guns. Especially when the stats are compiled so differently. Look at my comments in this thread, above, on what gets included in the 'violent crime' category in different countries.
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