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  #31  
Old 10-26-2012, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TerminatorX5 View Post
thank you dave...

as they say, don't bring knife to the gunfight... mitt is good but right now is not his time... obama is ok, and we need to have him bring the country back to the center - 8 years of bush have taken us so far to the right that we have become too much leftist - the patriot act alone has brought the US into worse situation than the 9/11 attack itself... i serve in the federal law enforcement establishment and i totally like the ability to monitor every camera that we have at our posts but i am first of all a US citizen, and i can see how the civil liberties are being taken away from us... the country needs to come back to its senses, and needs to steer back into center... mitt will take us into an uncontrolled spin, and we are coming out of Bush spin just about now...
later, when we are ok, then mitt, or someone like that will be ok for the economy...
and, i would propose an 8 year single term for the president, so they do not become lame ducks in the middle of whatever they are doing... i would also limit the money - money is the main culprit in any of the elections that we are having... if a candidate spends a dollar, his opponent can't spend more than a dollar... well... it will never happen...

just needed to vent...
Obama bring the country back to center?

Also, I am pretty sure that Clinton's actions towards Fannie Mae and the mortgage business played a significant role in the whole mortgage crisis and downturn of the economy. I can agree that there is a lag from one President to the other and Bush took a hit towards the end of his run (mortgage crisis) from Clinton's decisions.
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  #32  
Old 10-26-2012, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by blktoptrvl View Post
The big deal is that some think his taxes are fishy ans want to take a look.
I guess Trump feels the same way about Obama's college transcripts, so what is the difference?

I just don't understand why the taxes are such a big deal. Romney has filed his taxes with the IRS and they haven't accused him of doing anything wrong, so what would you do with them? Is it a lack of trust in the Gov't? If that is the case maybe we all really do need to personally see original copies of Obama's birth certificate and college transcripts.
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  #33  
Old 10-26-2012, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by FSETH View Post
...Bush took a hit towards the end of his run (mortgage crisis) from Clinton's decisions...
Are you sure it was Clinton's decisions that hurt him. Or was it Bush himself, like most of the other bad decisions he made...

...Granted the source is Wiki...

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac

In 2003, the Bush Administration attempted to create an agency to oversee Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. The bill never made progress in Congress, facing sharp opposition by Democrats. In 2005, the Republican controlled House of Representatives passed a GSE reform bill (Federal Housing Finance Reform Act) which "would have created a stronger regulator with new powers to increase capital at Fannie and Freddie, to limit their portfolios and to deal with the possibility of receivership". However, the Bush administration opposed the bill and it died in the Senate. Of the bill and its reception by the Bush White House, Ohio Republican Mike Oxley (the bill's author) said: "The critics have forgotten that the House passed a GSE reform bill in 2005 that could well have prevented the current crisis. All the handwringing and bedwetting is going on without remembering how the House stepped up on this. What did we get from the White House? We got a one-finger salute." The Bush economic policy regarding Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac changed during the economic downturn of 2008, culminating in the federal takeover of the two largest lenders in the mortgage market. Further economic challenges have resulted in the Bush administration attempting an economic intervention, through a requested $700 billion bailout package for Wall Street investment houses.

As for blame... Don't you love how people like to rewrite history?

No legislation to further regulate GSEs is passed by a Republican-controlled Congress.

October 7, 2004
The House Financial Services Committee Chairman Michael Oxley (R-OH) cancels a markup on legislation to reform GSEs at the request of President Bush. According to CBS Marketwatch: “Strong opposition by the Bush Administration forced a top Republican congressman to delay a vote on a bill that would create a new regulator for mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.”

May 25, 2005
The House Financial Services Committee, under control of House Republicans and Chairman Oxley, passed a GSE Reform bill, H.R. 1461, by a vote of 65-5. Every Democrat on the Committee voted for the bill. Five Republicans, arguing that the bill did not go far enough, voted against H.R. 1461: Reps. Ed Royce, Ron Paul, Tom Feeney, Jeb Hensarling, and Scott Garrett.

July 28, 2005
The Senate Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Committee, then chaired by Sen. Richard Shelby (R-AL), passed S. 190, the Bush Administration’s bill, out of Committee. The bill was passed by a party-line vote of 11-10. The bill did not reach the Senate floor for a vote.

October 26, 2005
On the day the House was scheduled to vote on H.R. 1461, the Bush Administration issued a Statement of Administration Policy opposing the House Republican GSE bill.

October 26, 2005
H.R. 1461 passes House by a vote of 331-90, with 122 Democrats voting in favor. Note: Frank voted against the bill when it reached the floor, but not because of any opposition to reforming the GSEs, but because the Republican leadership decided to cut out funding for faith-based charities that provide low-income rental housing from the Affordable Housing Trust Fund.

September 2006
Oxley and Frank send a bipartisan letter to Senator Shelby urging GSE reform. Many Democrats and Republicans signed this letter urging the Senate to act.

January 2007
Democrats take control of the House and Senate; Barney Frank is named Chairman of the House Financial Services Committee.

March 28, 2007
The House Financial Services Committee passes H.R. 1427, the GSE reform bill, by a vote of 49-15. The legislation had the support of the Bush Administration and represented a tougher bill than the 2005 effort. Incredibly, 19 Republicans opposed the bill.

May 22, 2007
The House of Representatives passes H.R. 1427, by a vote of 313-104. All opposition came from Republicans.

January, 2008
Chairman Frank offers to insert both GSE reform and FHA reform into the stimulus bill that was being negotiated by Democrats and Republicans in Congress and the Bush Administration. Secretary Paulson declined, citing opposition from the White House.

May 8, 2008
House of Representatives passes H.R. 3221, which contains GSE reform provision, after receiving the Senate amendments to the original bill.

May 20, 2008
The Senate Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs Committee passes a bill containing GSE Reform provisions- The Federal Housing Finance Regulatory Reform Act of 2008.

July 11, 2008
The United States Senate passes GSE reform as part of a bigger bill.

July 30, 2008
President Bush signs GSE reform as part of H.R. 3221
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  #34  
Old 10-26-2012, 11:16 AM
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so... bush could take a hit from clinton's policies after almost 8 years of his own rule, and obama is immune to bush's policies after almost 4 years of his rule... well, that statement of mine is totally unscientific...

What I hear though, Romney's incompetency on the international arena - Chinese are laughing their butts off and they just wish that Romney takes helm - in that case, we will have even our dental appointments done in Shanghai, as it will make better business sense...
There is also India, with the second largest population in the world, with a lot of ambitions and nukes to back them up... And the Pakis, with their own nukes, to stop the indians from reaching the stars...
Don't forget the Russians, they are not your Lybians or Syrians, or whatever... we can't fly drones over Kremlin and take out those who we don't like... I mean... we could... fly a drone over Kremlin... once... before a bright flash in our eyes.... lol...

The world arena is complex, that shaking hands with israel does not mean that romney knows interantional affairs... he went to three countries and had snafus at each one of them... lol...
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  #35  
Old 10-26-2012, 11:54 AM
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Also from Wiki, for lack of time at the moment to find other sources.

This is when it all started to go bad, imo.


In 1999, Fannie Mae came under pressure from the Clinton administration to expand mortgage loans to low and moderate income borrowers by increasing the ratios of their loan portfolios in distressed inner city areas designated in the CRA of 1977. Additionally, institutions in the primary mortgage market pressed Fannie Mae to ease credit requirements on the mortgages it was willing to purchase, enabling them to make loans to subprime borrowers at interest rates higher than conventional loans.

In 1999, The New York Times reported that with the corporation's move towards the subprime market "Fannie Mae is taking on significantly more risk, which may not pose any difficulties during flush economic times. But the government-subsidized corporation may run into trouble in an economic downturn, prompting a government rescue similar to that of the savings and loan industry in the 1980s." Alex Berenson of The New York Times reported in 2003 that Fannie Mae's risk is much larger than is commonly held. Nassim Taleb wrote in The Black Swan: "The government-sponsored institution Fannie Mae, when I look at its risks, seems to be sitting on a barrel of dynamite, vulnerable to the slightest hiccup. But not to worry: their large staff of scientists deem these events 'unlikely'". In his 2006 book, America's Financial Apocalypse, Mike Stathis also warned about the risk of Fannie Mae helping to trigger the financial crisis: “With close to $2 trillion in debt between Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae alone, as well as several trillion held by commercial banks, failure of just one GSE or related entity could create a huge disaster that would easily eclipse the Savings & Loan Crisis of the late 1980s. This would certainly devastate the stock, bond and real estate markets. Most likely, there would also be an even bigger mess in the derivatives market, leading to a global sell-off in the capital markets. Not only would investors get crushed, but taxpayers would have to bail them out since the GSEs are backed by the government. Everyone would feel the effects. At its bottom, I would estimate a 30 to 35 percent correction for the average home. And in ‘hot spots’ such as Las Vegas, selected areas of Northern and Southern California and Florida, home prices could plummet by 55 to 60 percent from peak values.
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  #36  
Old 10-26-2012, 12:15 PM
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In addition, looks like Bush tried to do something about this in 2003, but it was shot down. The next thing on the table wasn't until 2005, which by then, was way to late to correct the mistakes from 1999. Everything had already snowballed.

Plus, without going back and looking through every single item contained in those bills from the mid-2000's, it is very difficult to see why they were opposed by Bush. A lot of other items get crammed into these bills.
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  #37  
Old 10-26-2012, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by FSETH View Post
In addition, looks like Bush tried to do something about this in 2003, but it was shot down. The next thing on the table wasn't until 2005, which by then, was way to late to correct the mistakes from 1999. Everything had already snowballed.

Plus, without going back and looking through every single item contained in those bills from the mid-2000's, it is very difficult to see why they were opposed by Bush. A lot of other items get crammed into these bills.
OK, I'll Trump (pun intended) your Clinton with another Bush (same source)...

"President Bush advocated the Ownership society, premised on the concepts of individual accountability, smaller government, and the owning of property. Critics have argued this contributed to the subprime mortgage crisis, by encouraging home ownership for those unable to afford them and insufficient regulation of financial institutions."

The point is that you can point fingers at Clinton all you want, but it appears to me that Bush is just as culpable - if not more - because he had the opportunities to ameliorate these issues but chose not to - I am guessing because by this time he could not afford to because of his unwise, badly managed, and off the books wars.

Programs can start out as good, and then need to be tended and corrected to remain good. When you abdicate your responsibilities to make these corrections who's fault is it, your or your predesessor under whose care these programs may have been headed for trouble - but were not yet in trouble?
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  #38  
Old 10-26-2012, 01:48 PM
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I thought there was a separate lounge for this sort of discussion...
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  #39  
Old 10-26-2012, 01:54 PM
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lounge is perfect place - we are sitting in plush red tree chairs decked out in leopard skins, sucking on huge cuban stoggies, sipping fine french cognac, resting our feet on ivory stools... and talking politics...
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Old 10-26-2012, 04:47 PM
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lounge is perfect place ... and talking politics...
There's even a more perfect place:

Xoutpost Politics Forum/

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