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-   -   FIXED: Return of the P0171 and P0174 (https://xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forums/x5-e53-forum/93637-fixed-return-p0171-p0174.html)

upallnight 08-24-2013 12:54 PM

A bad fuel pump would not throw up any code that tells you you have a bad fuel pump. He may get a p0171 and p0174 lean code because the mixture is too lean due to not enough fuel pressure.

bcredliner 08-24-2013 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by upallnight (Post 953388)
A bad fuel pump would not throw up any code that tells you you have a bad fuel pump. He may get a p0171 and p0174 lean code because the mixture is too lean due to not enough fuel pressure.

I was referring to the non-fuel related codes mentioned.

As it relates to the fuel pump, I agree that low fuel pressure and not starting or not running long are both bad fuel pump symptoms and that you suggest replacing the pump again. You have a good point as it appears it is not known if the used pumps were any good before install. Diddy also has a point, the odds of three in a row bad are very long.

Obviously, odds don't matter if there is no other problem that can generate similar symptoms but there are. I think we need to go back to troubleshooting before buying any other parts.

The only reason I am in that camp is I don't think the fuel relay has been eliminated and that can cause the similar symptoms. If Diddy can test that with diagnostics that would narrow it down. Is there a way to test cam sensors with diagnostics as that also generates similar conditions.

If I had the problem I would have done the pressure test as was done. I would also have tried to do a volume output measurement.

Assuming the same results as the video I would bypass the fuel relay and see if I get different results.

If that didn't correct the problem I would either test the pressure or output directly out of the tank. Would also look for any long shot pre-pump causes.

If I was still getting low pressure I would switch back to one of the other pumps and see if the output at the tank changes.

if the results are still the same, I would either start cussing or let my mind go numb for a few hours. After that I would draw the fuel system and list at each potential cause point what I have done. I would sleep on it and look at it with fresh eyes the next days and decide how to move forward.

diddy0071 08-24-2013 09:42 PM

New diagnostics - YouTube

New bmw scanner 1.4.0 - YouTube

Seems weird on the last video:

Last quick start - YouTube


By they way, I tapped the fuel pump with a hammer (best test yet! :confused:) and did nothing for the vehicle, except make it die a lot faster.

I do notice that in the morning, the vehicle starts up and drives semi-decent, and in the afternoon, it is shit.

upallnight 08-25-2013 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diddy0071 (Post 951457)
my stereo blew a few days ago, so I don't have Torque at the moment, so I can't see if the P0171 or P0174 codes are still active.

Having an alternator that put out 16 volt at 732 rpm couldn't have been the cause for the stereo to blow, could it?

You know that you can put Torque on an Android phone. Ask me how I know.

diddy0071 08-25-2013 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by upallnight (Post 953434)
Having an alternator that put out 16 volt at 732 rpm couldn't have been the cause for the stereo to blow, could it?

You know that you can put Torque on an Android phone. Ask me how I know.

I'm not sure. I put a battery charger to the battery since it died because of the 4th FSR I replaced that still kept the A/C Fan running inside the cabin. As soon as the car started charging, the stereo started smoking. The stereo still works, except the android side of the deck is dead, the Windows side is still working completely. The Alternator/vehicle was NOT running when the Android side died. Plus, it wasn't working 100% for a few weeks up to that.

And I don't need to ask you how you know. I have been using Android phones for a while (currently have iphone though).

TerminatorX5 08-25-2013 03:02 AM

how did the glove compartment area look like? did you have a chance to tear into it? once in-there, check the smell, if anything smells like electric burn... and since you will have the errors cleared out again, run the diagnostics and post them again, especially the error logs, and see if you can also pull the shadow memory errors... more info you post, better...

TerminatorX5 08-25-2013 03:32 AM

one of the tests in the cluster should show the fuel consumption in liters per minute... according to reading from my car (2006 4.8iS), the value should not drop below 0.9 liters per minute... the value might be different on a 3.0l engine but it might be worth taking a look at that value with engine idling...

bcredliner 08-25-2013 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diddy0071 (Post 953432)
New diagnostics - YouTube

New bmw scanner 1.4.0 - YouTube

Seems weird on the last video:

Last quick start - YouTube


By they way, I tapped the fuel pump with a hammer (best test yet! :confused:) and did nothing for the vehicle, except make it die a lot faster.

I do notice that in the morning, the vehicle starts up and drives semi-decent, and in the afternoon, it is shit.

With all the frustration you have endured a tap with the hammer is the least you deserve.

Does it progressively get worse in the morning as the engine reaches operating temperature? How far is the morning drive? What is the temperature range from morning to afternoon? Can you run the diagnostics in the morning and compare with the afternoon?

diddy0071 08-26-2013 11:51 AM

I was searching for fuel pump relay information and came across this from another thread:

Quote:

Have you checked all your fuses in the glove box. there is an SIb out about the low oil level sensor in the oil pan shorting out and blowing one of the ECM fuses in the glove box (forgot fuse #). If it is blown, unplug that sensor and replace fuse and see if car cranks. If car cranks than the oil level sensor is bad and needs replaced. I have done several X5 in the past year for this problem.
Anyone heard of this?

TerminatorX5 08-26-2013 12:17 PM

your oil sensor is mentioned in the error files, so it might be worth looking into it... what is the source of the quote? do you have a link?


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