The War - Page 15

ylwjacket · #**141** 01-24-2007, 02:30 PM

Eric - I sometimes have a hard time figuring out why you live in the USA, partaking in its horrible capalistic society and exercising the freedoms guaranteed under its Constitution, when you hate it so much?

I also have a hard time figuring if you hate the POTUS, and generalize that hatred to all Americans, businesses, and institutions of government, of if you actually hate Americans, businesses, and institutions of government.

Whatever the case may be, I often also wonder how there are so few people in this country who are so enlightened as to what really happens, and the other 300 million of us are mindless dolts caught up in the government propoganda machine. Actually, maybe I'm more offended that the enlightened few actually believe that I have no mind of my own.

At least Scottie throws stones from another country. I don't agree with some (OK most, when it come sot politics) of the stuff she says, but she's not having it both ways.

One thing to remember Scottie - no one appointed us captain. It was thrust upon us when we were attacked, by terrorists, who wish to acquire WMD to do us even more harm. Prior to 9/11, there was actually a trend towards isolationism in this country - you leave us alone, we'll leave you alone. It all changed that day.

We can argue the Iraq war all day long and get about as far as our own Congress is getting (that would be nowhere). Personally, I think there is no doubt that our President and Congress overestimated the size of the mandate they were handed by the people. But, in our form of government, you live with it until you can change it.

However - we have the absolute inalienable right to act in our own self-defense. And, for better or for worse, depending upon your perspective, we have the will, the personnel, and the means to do so.

I often wonder if the self-righteous Europeans would turn the other cheek in the face of a terrorist attack on the scale of what happened to the US. I tend to doubt it. On the other hand, outside of the UK, there probably isn't a damn thing they could do about it either, for want of means and will.

Sponsored Links

Wagner · #**142** 01-24-2007, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric5273

You'd actually be surprised how much stuff is never "lost". I was shocked at the kind of stuff they released after the JFK Act in the 1990s. When I tell some people about it, they don't believe me or think it is some kind of big conspiracy theory, but I've seen the documents with my own eyes (a family member likes to make frequent trips to the national archives and make use of FOIA).

Stuff on subjects like MK-ULTRA, the Cuban Missle Crisis, JFK Assassination, Vietnam War, MLK Assassination, etc. Lots of information has become public record over the last 15 years. Unfortunately the media ignores this stuff for the most part, and so most people are unaware.

They 'lost' JFK's brain after the assassination, they can lose anything.

Deuce · #**143** 01-24-2007, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ylwjacket

Eric - I sometimes have a hard time figuring out why you live in the USA, partaking in its horrible capalistic society and exercising the freedoms guaranteed under its Constitution, when you hate it so much?

I also have a hard time figuring if you hate the POTUS, and generalize that hatred to all Americans, businesses, and institutions of government, of if you actually hate Americans, businesses, and institutions of government.

Whatever the case may be, I often also wonder how there are so few people in this country who are so enlightened as to what really happens, and the other 300 million of us are mindless dolts caught up in the government propoganda machine. Actually, maybe I'm more offended that the enlightened few actually believe that I have no mind of my own.

At least Scottie throws stones from another country. I don't agree with some (OK most, when it come sot politics) of the stuff she says, but she's not having it both ways.

One thing to remember Scottie - no one appointed us captain. It was thrust upon us when we were attacked, by terrorists, who wish to acquire WMD to do us even more harm. Prior to 9/11, there was actually a trend towards isolationism in this country - you leave us alone, we'll leave you alone. It all changed that day.

We can argue the Iraq war all day long and get about as far as our own Congress is getting (that would be nowhere). Personally, I think there is no doubt that our President and Congress overestimated the size of the mandate they were handed by the people. But, in our form of government, you live with it until you can change it.

However - we have the absolute inalienable right to act in our own self-defense. And, for better or for worse, depending upon your perspective, we have the will, the personnel, and the means to do so.

I often wonder if the self-righteous Europeans would turn the other cheek in the face of a terrorist attack on the scale of what happened to the US. I tend to doubt it. On the other hand, outside of the UK, there probably isn't a damn thing they could do about it either, for want of means and will.

asawadude · #**144** 01-24-2007, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ylwjacket

Eric - I sometimes have a hard time figuring out why you live in the USA, partaking in its horrible capalistic society and exercising the freedoms guaranteed under its Constitution, when you hate it so much?

I also have a hard time figuring if you hate the POTUS, and generalize that hatred to all Americans, businesses, and institutions of government, of if you actually hate Americans, businesses, and institutions of government.

Whatever the case may be, I often also wonder how there are so few people in this country who are so enlightened as to what really happens, and the other 300 million of us are mindless dolts caught up in the government propoganda machine. Actually, maybe I'm more offended that the enlightened few actually believe that I have no mind of my own.

At least Scottie throws stones from another country. I don't agree with some (OK most, when it come sot politics) of the stuff she says, but she's not having it both ways.

One thing to remember Scottie - no one appointed us captain. It was thrust upon us when we were attacked, by terrorists, who wish to acquire WMD to do us even more harm. Prior to 9/11, there was actually a trend towards isolationism in this country - you leave us alone, we'll leave you alone. It all changed that day.

We can argue the Iraq war all day long and get about as far as our own Congress is getting (that would be nowhere). Personally, I think there is no doubt that our President and Congress overestimated the size of the mandate they were handed by the people. But, in our form of government, you live with it until you can change it.

However - we have the absolute inalienable right to act in our own self-defense. And, for better or for worse, depending upon your perspective, we have the will, the personnel, and the means to do so.

I often wonder if the self-righteous Europeans would turn the other cheek in the face of a terrorist attack on the scale of what happened to the US. I tend to doubt it. On the other hand, outside of the UK, there probably isn't a damn thing they could do about it either, for want of means and will.

We need one of those forums that allows readers to assign points for great posts, because ylwjacket's post here would be getting 10 points from me.

E61Silver · #**145** 01-24-2007, 06:40 PM

I am of many minds about some of the recent post:

1) We should not gang up against another member and being a American he is entitled to his views.

2) His view are so extreme that he can't be for real

3) How could such a socialist own a capitalist car like a BMW. Furthermore how can a liberal own a SUV instead of a Hybrid?

Eric I am not trying to attack you personally just trying to understand; would you please help me with this?

Quicksilver · #**146** 01-24-2007, 06:43 PM

Let me get a

Quote:

Originally Posted by x54.4blue

I am of many minds about some of the recent post:

1) We all should not gang up against another member and being a American he is entitled to his views.

2) His view are so extreme that he can't be for real

3) How could such a socialist own a capitalist car like a BMW. Furthermore how can a liberal own a SUV instead of a Hybrid?

Eric I am not trying to attack you personally just trying to understand; would you please help me with this?

the head · #**147** 01-24-2007, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by x54.4blue

I am of many minds about some of the recent post:

1) We all should not gang up against another member and being a American he is entitled to his views.

2) His view are so extreme that he can't be for real

3) How could such a socialist own a capitalist car like a BMW. Furthermore how can a liberal own a SUV instead of a Hybrid?

Eric I am not trying to attack you personally just trying to understand; would you please help me with this?

My guess on number 3 has something to do with the "Trustafarian" principle

The trustafarian is common in mountanous regions and can often be found sitting on a range rover wearing north face, smoking pot, and smelling of pauchulli discussing how awful capitalism is whilest ignoring the fact thier parents bought them an 70k SUV so these kids could go to colorado and waste the little oxygen found at high altitudes.

Look at the icons of liberalism how many of them are truly "down with the cause" Noam Chomsky lives in a gated community in a house last appraised at over 6 million how does he represent the people? He preaches about higher taxes to improve the lives of the impoverished yet makes minimal charitable donations...if you cannot spend your own money on your causes don't expect others to follow. Hell the kennedy fortune was made from Bootlegging whisky from canada durnig prohibition...truly capitalism at it's finest. Overall the hypocracy within the liberal phsyche is something I am always amazed with.

E61Silver · #**148** 01-24-2007, 07:23 PM

Eric5273 · #**149** 01-24-2007, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by x54.4blue

I am of many minds about some of the recent post:

1) We should not gang up against another member and being a American he is entitled to his views.

2) His view are so extreme that he can't be for real

3) How could such a socialist own a capitalist car like a BMW. Furthermore how can a liberal own a SUV instead of a Hybrid?

Eric I am not trying to attack you personally just trying to understand; would you please help me with this?

Being a socialist does not mean that I think we all should be poor and not have nice things. Unfortunately socialism/communism has that reputation because only extremely poor countries have changed to this economic system. So when people think of communist countries, poor countries where poor people had to wait on line for goods and services come to mind.

I can tell from posts in this forum that very few (if any) of you have read Karl Marx. Communism is not meant to grow an economy. It is only meant to spread the wealth evenly among the population. If there is very little wealth, then everyone will be equally poor.

Marx meant for Communism to be the next natural progression AFTER Capitalism. As we are seeing in the world today, Capitalism implodes after a while. There are no new markets to expand to, so the result becomes infighting and corruption and an eventual progression towards Fascism.

Competition is both good and bad. The good part is that it motivates people. The bad part is that time is wasted competing instead of being productive. For example, a company like BMW will spend a certain percentage of their resources on building good cars, and a certain percentage on advertising and promotion. If their goal was not to make money, but instead only to produce good vehicles, then they could spend 100% of their resources on building good cars and thus we would have a better product, but for the same cost to the consumer.

When there are constant new markets to expand to, most resources are spent on product development and distribution and only a much smaller amount on advertising and promotion. But when there are no new markets to expand to, then the only way to increase business is to take market share from another company, and you do this through advertising and promotion.

If you look at economics of major industries over the last 30 years, you will find an increasing percentage of resources being spent on advertising and a decreasing percentage spent on product development. This part that is being spent on advertising is wasteful and amounts to "infighting" rather than true productivity. Nothing useful is being produced by advertising, and thus the productivity factor is zero. You might as well have the entire advertising industry spend their days digging holes and filling them in. The total size of our economy would not change any if you did this. Stop thinking about productivity in terms of dollars and cents, and instead think of productivity in terms of what is being actually produced or accomplished. That is true productivity.

By changing to a Communist system, you become more productive in that all of your resources are spent on true productivity, and not on infighting. You work together, instead of competing against eachother.

And if the total wealth of the country is like what we have in the United States today, then everyone would not be "equally poor" but instead "equally rich".

With the wealth and resources we have in the United States, everyone could have practially everything they wanted, and there would still be extra resources to spare.

Stop thinking on a level of dollars and cents and start thinking on a level of goods and services. Would you want your BMW any more or less if it costed $5,000 instead of $50,000? It would still be the same car. Would you want to live in a big house if it didn't cost any more than a small one? Is your only drive in life to be better than someone else, or do you want to succeed for you (and your family) only? What defines "success"?

Regarding my business, I do enjoy what I do today. And I would enjoy it just as much even if I didn't own the company, but instead just managed it. I take pride in my work and would not put in any less effort. And if I didn't have to worry about making profit, the product I would produce could be a lot better as well.

E61Silver · #**150** 01-24-2007, 07:46 PM

So does this mean you are not liberal?

Sponsored Links