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  #61  
Old 07-21-2021, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by EODguy View Post
Let's start slowly....

As I originally asked you.

What about these laws are SPECIFICALLY suppressing voters?
So far you refuse to answer.

The comments on tv and the web to include this site have most vaccinated people making some or both variations of the examples I used not to mention pushing for the vaccine to be mandatory or at least rules changed to make it so unvaccinated people couldn't shop, work and have some sort of "papers" showing proof of vaccination AKA medical data violating HIPAA.
Well, in Texas' case they are trying to limit polling hours, limit mail in ballots, and banning "drive through" polling. Then there is the added "partisan poll watcher" language. They are already allowed in the room by poll workers. If one of them (from either party) gets close too close to my polling booth, there's going to be a problem.

Some things in the proposed bill I agree with (ID checks and registration confirmation), but the above is just sour grapes for having lost the executive branch. Well, that, and fear of losing more seats in Congress.

https://www.texastribune.org/2021/07...ecial-session/

As to the left wanting to regulate everyone into submission to "defeat" covid... it's just not going to happen. All the democrats are running around with no mask on now after being vaccinated and catching covid, spreading it, etc. When Trump and the republicans were doing things like that it was the end of the world. Just another example that most politicians are a bunch of self-serving hypocrites that should be voted out of office immediately.
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  #62  
Old 07-21-2021, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by crystalworks View Post
Well, in Texas' case they are trying to limit polling hours, limit mail in ballots, and banning "drive through" polling. Then there is the added "partisan poll watcher" language. They are already allowed in the room by poll workers. If one of them (from either party) gets close too close to my polling booth, there's going to be a problem.



Some things in the proposed bill I agree with (ID checks and registration confirmation), but the above is just sour grapes for having lost the executive branch. Well, that, and fear of losing more seats in Congress.



https://www.texastribune.org/2021/07...ecial-session/



As to the left wanting to regulate everyone into submission to "defeat" covid... it's just not going to happen. All the democrats are running around with no mask on now after being vaccinated and catching covid, spreading it, etc. When Trump and the republicans were doing things like that it was the end of the world. Just another example that most politicians are a bunch of self-serving hypocrites that should be voted out of office immediately.
I'll try and go in order and down your list of comments, but I sometimes end up getting out of order (sorry in advance)

Voting hours are actually expanded under the bills with the exception of Harris county which for the 1st time ever instituted 24hr voting due to covid19.
"Bills 1 and 3 add an extra hour of required early voting hours for local elections, moving it from 8 hours to 9. And both bills lower the population threshold for counties required to provide at least 12 hours of early voting each weekday of the second week of early voting in state elections."


Mail in ballots had to be requested except in Harris county in 2020 when they tried to send them out to all 2.4 million registered voters. Which was found to be illegal by the Texas Supreme Court and blocked it from implementation.



Drive thu voting was 1st tried in Harris county in 2020 and they opened 10 "centers" for the general election. It was considered as problematic since poll watchers were unable to verify voter's id's due to distance requirements under covid19 and issues with placements supporting democrat areas over republican.

The partisan poll watchers portion only clarifies the current law. (see below)

Bills 1 and 3 include language to strengthen the autonomy of partisan poll watchers at polling places by granting them “free movement” within a polling place, except for being present at a voting station when a voter is filling out their ballot. Both chambers also want to make it a criminal offense to obstruct their view or distance the watcher “in a manner that would make observation not reasonably effective.”
Currently, poll watchers are entitled to sit or stand “conveniently near” election workers, and it is a criminal offense to prevent them from observing.

It is because of the phrase conveniently near is easily open to abuse either conveniently too far to be effective or too close to be not seen as intimidation.




As you can see these were all 1st time events and done for supposed covid19 mitigation (except for poll watchers) and only in the heaviest democrat stronghold in Texas. It should also be noted that these rules are only changing things done for the 1st time due to covid19 emergency or in the case of mail-in hadn't ever happened so it can't be claimed to roll back a service that was offered previously.

As for vaccination requirements....

Fauci and by extension the government, CDC, etc have come out and advocated for vaccines for children to attend school, maintain 2m spacing for children (group least affected/at risk).

I do agree completely about voter id too.

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  #63  
Old 07-21-2021, 01:35 PM
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Oh absolutely. First time things for sure, and as you pointed out, in the largest democratic stronghold in the state. Expanding voting in all areas by 1 hour is great. But more time is better. 24 hours being best obviously.

Drive through polling seems like a great idea provided it carries all the same ID verification as in building voting. And, again as you pointed out, as long as placed fairly in the districts so as to not overly favor one party or another.

I am completely against Harris County just mailing out unrequested ballots. That leaves ballots floating around in the hands of people who may have no intention of voting in the first place. Or possibly be ineligible to vote.

But at the end of the day limiting/banning all the things Harris County did is an effort to ensure those polling efforts aren't repeated in other parts of the state. For better or worse.
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  #64  
Old 07-21-2021, 01:41 PM
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I may be misinterpreting your post above but it seems like you're saying these 1st time things and what's being done because of Harris county is an acceptable approach. If so then how is it "voter suppression" as the specifics I asked Maruzo about?

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  #65  
Old 07-21-2021, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EODguy View Post
Let's start slowly....

As I originally asked you.

What about these laws are SPECIFICALLY suppressing voters?
So far you refuse to answer.

The comments on tv and the web to include this site have most vaccinated people making some or both variations of the examples I used not to mention pushing for the vaccine to be mandatory or at least rules changed to make it so unvaccinated people couldn't shop, work and have some sort of "papers" showing proof of vaccination AKA medical data violating HIPAA.

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Google them yourself. I'm not making their case for you. Do your own due diligence.

The trend of increasing voter suppression laws that are popping up all over the country is a sign of GOP trying their hardest to swing the voting process in their favor. They've been doing that for decades. This is simply another push to tip the scale to their favor.

Why? It's not hard to figure out. Democrats have consistently out voted Republicans for the last few presidential elections. Each time the gap increases. Al Gore won popular vote by 500,000 votes. Hillary won PV by 2.9 million. And Biden won by a whopping 7 million votes, and his victory is being tauted by Trump as a lie.

Laughable, really. What's the point of casting votes if the losing side could just raise insurrection and try to take over the government because he's not happy with the result?

Anyway, the strategy is for the Republicans to make it easier for their constituents to vote, while making it harder for the democrats to cast their ballots.

No conspiracy here. It's just political strategy to gain competitive advantage.

It's old news. You either believe it or dont. I'm not here to do the work for you.

That been said, I'm not saying the democrats won't mess with the voting process just to make it easier for their constituents to cast their ballots.

At the end of day it's power grab between 2 of the major political parties in this country. Each trying to maintain a competitive edge in order to win the next election.

I remain suspicious of any and all new efforts to try and make the voting process more safe, more accessable, or more fair. Regardless of which party brings up the new laws.

This country has been a democratic country for more than 200 years. It boggles the mind that to this day we're still actively trying to "improve" the balloting process.
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Last edited by Maruzo; 07-21-2021 at 02:31 PM.
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  #66  
Old 07-21-2021, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EODguy View Post
I may be misinterpreting your post above but it seems like you're saying these 1st time things and what's being done because of Harris county is an acceptable approach. If so then how is it "voter suppression" as the specifics I asked Maruzo about?
Yes, I do believe some of the Harris County efforts to be good steps toward allowing voters access to the polls. 24 hour voting in particular. Though it obviously drastically increases the cost of elections to add these other procedures.

That's the only "voter suppression" I would point out, limiting access to traditional methods/times (+ 1 hour) of voting. Certainly not as egregious as many on the left would want the country to believe. I am unfamiliar with other state's efforts, perhaps some of them are more flagrant.
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  #67  
Old 07-22-2021, 01:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maruzo View Post
Google them yourself. I'm not making their case for you. Do your own due diligence.



The trend of increasing voter suppression laws that are popping up all over the country is a sign of GOP trying their hardest to swing the voting process in their favor. They've been doing that for decades. This is simply another push to tip the scale to their favor.



Why? It's not hard to figure out. Democrats have consistently out voted Republicans for the last few presidential elections. Each time the gap increases. Al Gore won popular vote by 500,000 votes. Hillary won PV by 2.9 million. And Biden won by a whopping 7 million votes, and his victory is being tauted by Trump as a lie.



Laughable, really. What's the point of casting votes if the losing side could just raise insurrection and try to take over the government because he's not happy with the result?



Anyway, the strategy is for the Republicans to make it easier for their constituents to vote, while making it harder for the democrats to cast their ballots.



No conspiracy here. It's just political strategy to gain competitive advantage.



It's old news. You either believe it or dont. I'm not here to do the work for you.



That been said, I'm not saying the democrats won't mess with the voting process just to make it easier for their constituents to cast their ballots.



At the end of day it's power grab between 2 of the major political parties in this country. Each trying to maintain a competitive edge in order to win the next election.



I remain suspicious of any and all new efforts to try and make the voting process more safe, more accessable, or more fair. Regardless of which party brings up the new laws.



This country has been a democratic country for more than 200 years. It boggles the mind that to this day we're still actively trying to "improve" the balloting process.
That's not how life works mister case maker....

You started this off saying Republican voter suppression and I asked you specifically what they were doing that is voter suppression for YOU to make the claim. You can see that CW posted a list to make a case even though it was asked of you.

My reading of the bills in Texas shows that the changes the laws there would make would effect only things that were tried for the first time under emergency circumstances or were never implemented and therefore no one would expect an Emergency use order to be permanent anyway and it's kind of dumb to think that something the voters never had before can be suppressed or taken away. The fact remains that voting hours in Texas will be increased and ONLY by comparing the proposed laws with the ONE TIME covid19 change can the law be considered as more restrictive.

Now for a real lesson about claims...

If I were to say that the sky is purple not blue it is up to me to provide proof or else it is nothing more than a BS statement.

Example: Maruzo is a wife beater and a drug dealer for the Sinaloa cartel in California.

Now if I provide proof of these statements everyone would have an easy time believing it.

If I don't provide proof and people think it's at least plausible it is up to you to prove to them that you're not a drug dealer and that you don't beat your wife anymore.

See how this works?

You made the claim and you don't seem to have the spine to say what the law does specifically that suppresses the vote.
This means either you're parroting what the democrats are saying because you are ignorant and can't think for yourself or that you are saying it because you believe in a party (dems) more than a nation (which are you?)

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  #68  
Old 07-22-2021, 01:22 AM
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Originally Posted by crystalworks View Post
Yes, I do believe some of the Harris County efforts to be good steps toward allowing voters access to the polls. 24 hour voting in particular. Though it obviously drastically increases the cost of elections to add these other procedures.



That's the only "voter suppression" I would point out, limiting access to traditional methods/times (+ 1 hour) of voting. Certainly not as egregious as many on the left would want the country to believe. I am unfamiliar with other state's efforts, perhaps some of them are more flagrant.
So out of all the steps listed that Harris county did or tried to do, the only one you think was good was the 24hr voting and it should be kept?

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  #69  
Old 07-22-2021, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by crystalworks View Post
Yes, I do believe some of the Harris County efforts to be good steps toward allowing voters access to the polls. 24 hour voting in particular. Though it obviously drastically increases the cost of elections to add these other procedures.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EODguy View Post
So out of all the steps listed that Harris county did or tried to do, the only one you think was good was the 24hr voting and it should be kept?
No, as bolded in my post. I thought drive through voting was a good idea that could be improved upon. Generally, I'm in favor of any measure that increases access to the polls for legitimate voters. Whether that be through increased hours or different procedures giving more access to voters. So long as the same ID verification and eligibility requirements are in place as those for traditional voting I think expanding access is a good thing.

Hell, I'd be in favor of web voting through a portal if I thought there was a chance in hell it could be secure enough and verifications accurate enough to match traditional polling procedures.

I absolutely want to protect the integrity of the election process, as I'm sure you do. But some of the language in the bill(s) here in Texas is written to stop the expansion of any new procedure(s) that might make a difference in more closely contested voting districts. Republicans were always going to lose Harris County. I don't care if the expanded procedures helps Democrats or Republicans... just that more verified eligible voters are able to have choices and access when it comes to the polls. Standing in line for hours at the polls in 2020 just sounds like we're doing something wrong. Even during early voting it took me 45 minutes.

But, at the end of the day, maybe it doesn't matter. I think more and more voters from the middle are getting fed up with the back and forth bickering and animosity. I'm not sure how many more national elections I'm going to care about, nothing changes, blue or red, the status quo is maintained by all the corporate money flowing into the campaign process. I may just participate in local elections at some point once frustration levels reach peak "what the f*ck!"
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  #70  
Old 07-23-2021, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by crystalworks View Post
No, as bolded in my post. I thought drive through voting was a good idea that could be improved upon. Generally, I'm in favor of any measure that increases access to the polls for legitimate voters. Whether that be through increased hours or different procedures giving more access to voters. So long as the same ID verification and eligibility requirements are in place as those for traditional voting I think expanding access is a good thing.



Hell, I'd be in favor of web voting through a portal if I thought there was a chance in hell it could be secure enough and verifications accurate enough to match traditional polling procedures.



I absolutely want to protect the integrity of the election process, as I'm sure you do. But some of the language in the bill(s) here in Texas is written to stop the expansion of any new procedure(s) that might make a difference in more closely contested voting districts. Republicans were always going to lose Harris County. I don't care if the expanded procedures helps Democrats or Republicans... just that more verified eligible voters are able to have choices and access when it comes to the polls. Standing in line for hours at the polls in 2020 just sounds like we're doing something wrong. Even during early voting it took me 45 minutes.



But, at the end of the day, maybe it doesn't matter. I think more and more voters from the middle are getting fed up with the back and forth bickering and animosity. I'm not sure how many more national elections I'm going to care about, nothing changes, blue or red, the status quo is maintained by all the corporate money flowing into the campaign process. I may just participate in local elections at some point once frustration levels reach peak "what the f*ck!"
I don't have a problem with that either, but I do have a problem with it being labeled as "voter suppression" since each of these were implemented for an emergency (AKA one time) or had never been implemented. You can't miss what you never had or expect to get a repeat after the emergency.

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