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  #571  
Old 01-14-2021, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by crystalworks View Post
I don't share the same sort of fear, not because I don't believe incidents will happen, but because I don't plan on being anywhere near them when they do. I fear for the potential violence just as I did with the BLM protests. Those blew over and so will these.

As I said, Trump has likely over played his hand and burned most political and corporate bridges. Without those all he has are his supporters so the writing is on the wall. I predict security will be increased to the point that nothing can really happen in DC. The national guard is resting in the Capitol building already between assignments. Trump's days are numbered.

This part of the forum has devolved once again into picket line style chest beating so I'll take a month or two off and check back in after the new administration is off and running like I did leading up to the election. Very little actual discussion happening currently as the majority of posts are once again us vs them personal attacks. Trump is not the only deplorable politician in Washington, just the most vocal and obvious.

Stay safe all. See you in other parts of the forum.
I'm not in fear. That's not what I said. I am concerned.

It was good to hear this morning that there will be limited public access to the inauguration area. That' a step in the right direction. Hopefully, there will be other preventative steps taken.

Trump will continue to incite his followers. He wants it known around the world that 74 million people think the election was rigged, stolen from him. Even if that is not the case he has already emboldened his followers and it has taken on a mind of its own. Where his followers are now is that they see last week as a success and are planning to do it again, bigger and better. Certainly over some period of time the level of anger will lower but I think that is a long way off. Violent protests don't have to be at the capital. It can be at any state or Federal building. If there isn't something bigger and better somewhere it is likely his followers will become even less organized and split into many smaller groups with different primary agendas but they will still be active. When protesting is allowed to get to where it is now there is more chance that a single deranged individual, that may not even be a supporter of Trump will see an opportunity for fame by shooting someone. Who they target can be random but more likely a democrat often in the news. The target could also be protesters. There are certainly radical or deranged individuals riled up about last week that hate Trump.

IMO the worst of all this is that it has to have taken away from defeating the pandemic. The distribution of the vaccine is falling short of expectations and many locations to be vaccinated are not in place or just getting up to speed. And in some cases there aren't qualified people to give the shots. The public is distracted by the election and what has happened since. COVID 19 is not a focus for the news media. Less awareness leads to less adherence to the guidelines. The pandemic will get worse instead of getting under control. I know this sounds like doom and gloom but I think that is where we realistically are. We aren't even close to kiss and makeup.
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  #572  
Old 01-14-2021, 05:01 PM
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https://apple.news/AdOTVenalQGKl-IlE4Y4ETQ

This maybe the reason why it's better to stop the spread rather than let herd immunity take over.

Long term effect on a covid-affected lung is not looking good at all.

Even asymptomatic people "show a severe chest X-ray 70% to 80% of the time."
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  #573  
Old 01-14-2021, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by bcredliner View Post
I'm not in fear. That's not what I said. I am concerned.

It was good to hear this morning that there will be limited public access to the inauguration area. That' a step in the right direction. Hopefully, there will be other preventative steps taken...

Okay, one more post because I misinterpreted your concern and your posts have been cogent.

Agree there will be a certain level of unrest, and probably violence. Such are the times we live in. Not the first time the country has gone through such things and definitely won't be the last. Throughout our history deranged individuals are just that. We can not stop every tragedy.

But Trump WISHES he had 74 million people supporters. He had 74 million VOTES. I believe a gigantic majority of those votes are long term, staunch, Republican voters who would not resort to violence under almost any circumstance (just as most Democratic voters wouldn't).

And I certainly agree with you about the Covid situation. It has lost focus due to the election and the run-up to the inauguration. But that's one of the things Biden ran on and all we can do is stay safe until the new administration is in place and hopefully they can improve things.

I was bringing my kids in from "recess/lunch" (homeschooling) earlier and learned my neighbor's father in law just passed from CV19 after he and his wife contracted it. He just turned 70. My father just turned 69 today.

Lastly, again, everyone stay safe, in all regards, not just with the pandemic. You're right, people aren't going to hug it out anytime soon, but the citizens have allowed this wedge to be driven. We can remove it through votes. I am not overly optimistic about that happening given what I see on the news and here on the forums, but I try to hold on to some hope for the sake of my kids.
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  #574  
Old 01-15-2021, 05:19 AM
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I would say that the differences in opinion between people has always been there in this country. But in the 38 years I've lived here I've never seen it divide the country quite this bad until Trump showed up on the public's radar.

People's desire to work things out between one another has always been the check and balances that make our differences our strength. We refrain from our urges to create havoc because we know not one viewpoint dominate, that everyone has a right to their opinion and all rights should be respected.

Charismatic leader like Trump has an ability to excite his base and lead them. His viewpoint becomes their viewpoint. And pretty soon they are blindly following him and doing whatever he tells them to do.

It's another form of cult following masked by the process of democratically certified election. Which ironically Trump tried to tear apart 4 years later because the result didn't go his way the second time.

There's no doubt Trump sow the seed of mistrust against one another in our society, fan the flame of chaos. And after the BLM movement, he picked up the idea of using protest as another form of galvanizing his base to do his own bidding. The recent riot on the Capitol comes to mind.

It's never about what's good for this country. If you hear the crowd's chanting of "Fight for Trump" when he supposedly was campaigning for the 2 Republican candidates for the Georgia runoff election less than 2 weeks ago, you would agree that it's all about how Trump's been wronged and how he deserved to be made whole. Not about anything else.

He exhibits so many signs of a dictator. You see similarities between him and some of the more notable tyrants in human history.

We need to wake up and remove ourselves from this divisive state we found ourselves.

There's nothing new that would cause us to behave this way. When you remove the source of the chaos, things will begin to go back to normal again.
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  #575  
Old 01-15-2021, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Maruzo View Post
https://apple.news/AdOTVenalQGKl-IlE4Y4ETQ

This maybe the reason why it's better to stop the spread rather than let herd immunity take over.

Long term effect on a covid-affected lung is not looking good at all.

Even asymptomatic people "show a severe chest X-ray 70% to 80% of the time."
For herd immunity to be effective 70+% of US citizens would have to be vaccinated. That is a long way away if it will ever get there. Even at 70% it is still necessary to follow the guidelines. In addition, there are residual aftereffects of the virus that will cause longterm health problems for a significant number of people. So yes, following the guidelines is vital to getting the virus under control.
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  #576  
Old 01-16-2021, 06:21 PM
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For herd immunity to be effective 70+% of US citizens would have to be vaccinated. That is a long way away if it will ever get there. Even at 70% it is still necessary to follow the guidelines. In addition, there are residual aftereffects of the virus that will cause longterm health problems for a significant number of people. So yes, following the guidelines is vital to getting the virus under control.
I believe for Herd Immunity to be effective 70+% of the population must have the antibodies in their system. In other word 70+% that survive has the antibodies in their system. The people that don't survive are not counted as part of that 70+%.
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  #577  
Old 01-16-2021, 08:24 PM
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I rather be proactive in doing everything I can to not become infected.

Even if you eventually recover and develop antibody, the long term damage to your lung may very well be done already.

Not willing to take that risk. Better safe than sorry later on in life.
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  #578  
Old 01-17-2021, 07:52 PM
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I believe for Herd Immunity to be effective 70+% of the population must have the antibodies in their system. In other word 70+% that survive has the antibodies in their system. The people that don't survive are not counted as part of that 70+%.
That and the Antibodies generated after infection don't tend to hang around for long, leaving you susceptible to reinfection. That's why the vaxx is a must have if you are able to get it.
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  #579  
Old 01-18-2021, 10:35 AM
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I believe for Herd Immunity to be effective 70+% of the population must have the antibodies in their system. In other word 70+% that survive has the antibodies in their system. The people that don't survive are not counted as part of that 70+%.
Herd immunity achieved by vaccination is a better way; the preemptive way. We're in a battle against the unseen enemy and fighting it proactively is much better than passively defending it as it continues to infect us.
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  #580  
Old 01-18-2021, 05:02 PM
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I believe for Herd Immunity to be effective 70+% of the population must have the antibodies in their system. In other word 70+% that survive has the antibodies in their system. The people that don't survive are not counted as part of that 70+%.


It is not known how long the antibodies from recovered COVID 19 patients are effective so including those that have recovered may not be relevant. Early studies have shown effectiveness may only be a few weeks. So those that have antibodies are not a part of the 70%. There were some that promoted allowing people in order to reach heard immunity. Currently about 23.5 million have recovered. If 70% was the number that means another 200 million would have to recover from the virus. That would mean 10s of thousands more would die before we got there.

So far experts are saying the vaccine is equally effective on the mutations but those new variations have been more contagious. That could also change. Many states are yet to establish enough inoculation sites or are at limited capacity. Fauci has increased the percent to 75-85% and suggested it may take as high as 90% as it did for measles. The point being no one knows for sure.

With all the unknowns the best and quickest course of action to get back to the new normal is still to follow the guidelines and consider all else to be helpful but not the panacea. The guidelines have proven to be effective since the beginning, months before the virus was even in the US. But millions choose to believe otherwise, don't know any better or think not wearing a mask or not following the guidelines is symbolic of support for Trump or mistakenly believe wearing a mask makes them look weak.

IMO, getting back to a new normal will be at least midyear 2022.
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