I'll take Covid in Floriduh for $100...or "Is DeSantis toast?"

[ard]

Florida sets yet another daily record on COVID infections. Highest of the entire pandemic I believe….

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/florida...s-record-high/


Florida reports highest number of new COVID-19 cases in a single day since the start of the pandemic

And DeSantis- ever so eager to establish his bona fides as the leader of the Republican Death Cult- is busy suppressing masks and vaccines.

[Maruzo]

Florida Has a huge tie to the rest of the country. People have relatives from all over the continent visiting or getting visited. It’s the perfect nesting ground for delta variant.

[ard]

lol. Sure bub.




But DeSantis!!! He's the guy in 2024, yes? Trump with more hair.... A more nimble and coherent Trump.


Problem is that his Pro-Covid Platform seems to be not such a great hit with his voters....


Quinnipiac University Polling Analyst Tim Malloy. On handling the state’s response to COVID-19:

• 46% approve
• 51% disapprove

Overall job performance:

• 47% approve
• 45% disapprove

On whether Gov. Ron DeSantis should run president in 2024:

• 35% approve
• 59% disapprove

Voters are divided on whether DeSantis deserves to be reelected:

• 48% say he does
• 45% say he does not
• 6% not offering an opinion.

On climate change:

• Florida voters say 51 – 44% that they think climate change is going to have a significant negative effect on Florida in their lifetimes.
• 55% of voters say DeSantis needs to do more to address rising sea levels
• 30% say he is doing enough
• 15% did not offer an opinion.
• 52% of voters say DeSantis needs to do more to protect the Everglades
• 35% say he is doing enough
• 13% did not offer an opinion.

Margin of error +/- 3.3%



and elsewhere: Regarding schools, the poll gave DeSantis a negative rating of 44 to 51%.




Just a steady drumbeat of schools and courts thumbing their noses at his INSANE 'no mask/no vaccine' approaches. He keeps putting his (little) dick on the line and they keep stepping on it.


When will he give it up?

[E53Envyy]

What are your thoughts on the covid situation in Israel?

Looks like masks, triple vaccine, and vaccine passports won't hold back delta. Breakthrough cases will lead to vaccine mutation immunity, Israel reports Pfizer is only 39% effective.

What is the solution? If you were DeSantis, what would you do?

[ard]

Originally Posted by E53Envyy

If you were DeSantis, what would you do?

Shoot myself?





(Im not sure your question is serious....)


First, you are characterization the israel results... the third dose does NOT have a 49% efficacy. That data is for the 2 dose regime and is why they are going to three....

• Pfizer and BioNTech’s Covid-19 vaccine is just 39% effective in Israel where the delta variant is the dominant strain, according to a new report from the country’s Health Ministry.
• The two-dose vaccine still works very well in preventing people from getting seriously sick, demonstrating 88% effectiveness against hospitalization and 91% effectiveness against severe illness, according to the Israeli data.

I **do** think masks, triple vaccine, passports WILL SLOW THE SPREAD and allow our healthcare systems to safely 'land' this pandemic.


This (retarded) idea that if something isnt 100% it isnt worth it...is intellectually stunted thinking. "masks aren't 100% why bother?"..."the vaccines aren't 100% why bother?"....




And why do you mean by "vaccine mutation immunity"? It doesnt mean anything as you wrote it.


Yes, continued spread of covid increases the odd of a mutation evading vaccine control. THIS IS HOW WE GOT DELTA. (duh) But it is the best we have, and it is FAR BETTER to deal with delta in a vaccinated population than in a population that has no vaccines. (double duh)


Get vaccinates
Wear masks
Try not to get exposed
Hope they roll out a specific 'coronavirus' booster in 22/23.





And back to DeSantis...the guy is an uneducated, ignorant piece of shite. He has this idea that we all just need to get covid and be done with it. The sad and horrifying fact is that covid, un-treated, will circle the planet for centuries. Just like the flu.


Instead he is flaming culture wars.

[E53Envyy]

Originally Posted by ard

Shoot myself?





(Im not sure your question is serious....)


First, you are characterization the israel results... the third dose does NOT have a 49% efficacy. That data is for the 2 dose regime and is why they are going to three....

• Pfizer and BioNTech’s Covid-19 vaccine is just 39% effective in Israel where the delta variant is the dominant strain, according to a new report from the country’s Health Ministry.
• The two-dose vaccine still works very well in preventing people from getting seriously sick, demonstrating 88% effectiveness against hospitalization and 91% effectiveness against severe illness, according to the Israeli data.

I **do** think masks, triple vaccine, passports WILL SLOW THE SPREAD and allow our healthcare systems to safely 'land' this pandemic.


This (retarded) idea that if something isnt 100% it isnt worth it...is intellectually stunted thinking. "masks aren't 100% why bother?"..."the vaccines aren't 100% why bother?"....




And why do you mean by "vaccine mutation immunity"? It doesnt mean anything as you wrote it.


Yes, continued spread of covid increases the odd of a mutation evading vaccine control. THIS IS HOW WE GOT DELTA. (duh) But it is the best we have, and it is FAR BETTER to deal with delta in a vaccinated population than in a population that has no vaccines. (double duh)


Get vaccinates
Wear masks
Try not to get exposed
Hope they roll out a specific 'coronavirus' booster in 22/23.





And back to DeSantis...the guy is an uneducated, ignorant piece of shite. He has this idea that we all just need to get covid and be done with it. The sad and horrifying fact is that covid, un-treated, will circle the planet for centuries. Just like the flu.


Instead he is flaming culture wars.

Yes, it was a serious question. I would rather have a government whom doesn't align with my beliefs then one whom completely imposes theirs and removes my choice and freedom. It should be the businesses choice to decide who can enter their establishment not the governments. Same with the schools, it's the parents children whom are at risk so let the parents decide.

Using the powers of enforcement only raises contempt within people who resist. Instead, try to understand why people are opposing your beliefs. If someone is an anti vax don't call them ignorant, have a polite discourse on the topic.

Regarding Israel, I did not intend to mislead the effectiveness of the third dose. It appears Pfizer becomes significantly less effective after 6 months and the third dose is necessary to continue immunity. The third dose effectiveness is yet to be determined but according to Israel it has helped a lot!

When I say "vaccine mutation immunity" I am referring to COVID specifically mutating in vaccinated people with the resulting mutation being more resilient to the vaccine. This is bad news not only for the vaccinated but could also be devastating to the unvaccinated. That being, now healthy unvaccinated people whom had a high level of survival could be devastated from a vaccine related mutation. Keep in mind, the delta variant was not the result of a vaccine mutation.

Anyway, closer to home for me in Ontario the government will mandate vaccination passports for anyone partaking in social events. So basically if you would like any sort of life you must be vaccinated. They are just beginning this rollout on dining, schools, gyms and other close contact areas. As I mentioned at the start of my post I believe this should be the businesses choice. I would fully understand why a business would impose or not impose this mandate.

I have no doubt DeSantis has said many ignorant and stupid remarks. He's another Trump!

[ard]

Originally Posted by E53Envyy

Yes, it was a serious question. I would rather have a government whom doesn't align with my beliefs then one whom completely imposes theirs and removes my choice and freedom. It should be the businesses choice to decide who can enter their establishment not the governments. Same with the schools, it's the parents children whom are at risk so let the parents decide.

Using the powers of enforcement only raises contempt within people who resist. Instead, try to understand why people are opposing your beliefs. If someone is an anti vax don't call them ignorant, have a polite discourse on the topic.

Regarding Israel, I did not intend to mislead the effectiveness of the third dose. It appears Pfizer becomes significantly less effective after 6 months and the third dose is necessary to continue immunity. The third dose effectiveness is yet to be determined but according to Israel it has helped a lot!

When I say "vaccine mutation immunity" I am referring to COVID specifically mutating in vaccinated people with the resulting mutation being more resilient to the vaccine. This is bad news not only for the vaccinated but could also be devastating to the unvaccinated. That being, now healthy unvaccinated people whom had a high level of survival could be devastated from a vaccine related mutation. Keep in mind, the delta variant was not the result of a vaccine mutation.

Anyway, closer to home for me in Ontario the government will mandate vaccination passports for anyone partaking in social events. So basically if you would like any sort of life you must be vaccinated. They are just beginning this rollout on dining, schools, gyms and other close contact areas. As I mentioned at the start of my post I believe this should be the businesses choice. I would fully understand why a business would impose or not impose this mandate.

I have no doubt DeSantis has said many ignorant and stupid remarks. He's another Trump!

Hmm. So a couple of points....


Lets say this was ebola- with a 98% death rate and highly contagious.... I assume you would fully support no restrictions, no masks, kids n school- full 'freedoms"? Yes?


Because government has no role whatsoever in public health, right? None, according to your professed belief..

Just checking.....


(And no role in seat belt laws. No role in smoking laws, just leave it to bars and restaurants. Keep government out of our lives. And guns too, everyone should be able to buy whatever guns they want, carry them where they want. THATS the kind of government you support? No rules at all- none. Total personal freedom, yes?)


Or will you say "only personal freedoms for the things **I** want"????




and speaking of hypocrisy... Twitter, facebook- all private businesses and can fully decide who gets to 'go' into their businesses, right? You fully support them dropping, say, every elected republican? Hypothetically speaking. Or kick out Christians. Or drop anyone that doesnt check a box saying "I believe in vaccines".... Or whatever zuckerburg wants, yes? (just a quick hypocrisy check...)



and (still checking) you would be 10000% against any government rule that forced Facebook and twitter to allow anyone in? Governemtn has no role, only private businesses should have full unfettered control of who uses their private 'space'.


Next point....

This insistence that we 'politely debate' anti-vax morons, and the evil pieces of crap that work hard to undermine our societies with these lies is quite something. They are liars, they are seeking to kill people and destabilize our societies for their political, financial purposes. (international groups are driving this conflict in liberal democracies- canada, Australia, US...EU... Russia? Or just the criminal oligarchs that live outside over governmental constraints??)



Your thinking is that we should treat everone as a confused but totally rational fellow citizen- we just pull up a chair and get them gently educated? I mean this might work for a misguided youth or confused aunt.... but this is far from that. IMO when someone is taking hard antivax positions online- posting it, repeating it, THEY are part of the problem!



And the third point.



Speaking of kinder and gentler....
Your theory on vaccine mutations is incoherent and -if I get what you are saying- insane. You seem to be saying that vaccinated people are creating a unique risk since- if there is a mutation 'in them'- it will 'get around' the vaccine and be some kind of superbug?!? Seriously? Where do you get your science? Facebook?!? This feels like anti-vax BS that tries to leverage the efficacy slippage w/ Delta to undermine the whole vaccine effort. and toss in a bit of 'lets blame the vaccinated' (hint- viruses do not respond to vaccines like antibiotic resistance superbugs.) But really, this is some utter nonsense. If you have a link, would like to see where this nonsense is coming from. Disinformation in its finest.


(and I am serious on this last point, Id like to see where this comes from..)

[E53Envyy]

Originally Posted by ard

Hmm. So a couple of points....


Lets say this was ebola- with a 98% death rate and highly contagious.... I assume you would fully support no restrictions, no masks, kids n school- full 'freedoms"? Yes?

Please reread my post. I believe in choice. In your theoretically situation with ebola I would continue to support choice. A business can choose its restrictions and people can choose to shop from that business. That being said, it would be in the businesses best interest to impose certain restrictions that would align with public opinion. Else, they would loose many costumers. I'll also explicitly state that discriminatory restrictions would not be allowed under any circumstances. The government can impose restrictions on government property such as public schools.

Question: Do you think restrictions based on the covid vaccine should be considered discriminatory? What are your thoughts on the "my body, my choice" movement?

I am not trapping you with those questions as I do not know the answers.

Originally Posted by ard

and speaking of hypocrisy... Twitter, facebook- all private businesses and can fully decide who gets to 'go' into their businesses, right? You fully support them dropping, say, every elected republican? Hypothetically speaking. Or kick out Christians. Or drop anyone that doesnt check a box saying "I believe in vaccines".... Or whatever zuckerburg wants, yes? (just a quick hypocrisy check...)

As long as they're not discriminating against race, colour, religion, national origin or disability then I wouldn't have an issue.

Originally Posted by ard

and (still checking) you would be 10000% against any government rule that forced Facebook and twitter to allow anyone in? Governemtn has no role, only private businesses should have full unfettered control of who uses their private 'space'.

Yes. That being said, they cannot be discriminating and they must have valid a reason to exclude someone. Violating Facebooks terms of service has consequences and although I may not agree with these terms I accept that Facebook has the right to deny people access onto their website. If there is a dispute regarding a section of the terms then the issue should be addressed by the courts and not the government.

Originally Posted by ard

Next point....

This insistence that we 'politely debate' anti-vax morons, and the evil pieces of crap that work hard to undermine our societies with these lies is quite something. They are liars, they are seeking to kill people and destabilize our societies for their political, financial purposes. (international groups are driving this conflict in liberal democracies- canada, Australia, US...EU... Russia? Or just the criminal oligarchs that live outside over governmental constraints??)



Your thinking is that we should treat everone as a confused but totally rational fellow citizen- we just pull up a chair and get them gently educated? I mean this might work for a misguided youth or confused aunt.... but this is far from that. IMO when someone is taking hard antivax positions online- posting it, repeating it, THEY are part of the problem!

I can tell you're passionate about this topic and that's great. Personally I have a tough time understanding what's going on as I'm constantly bombarded with contradiction information from people who claim to be professionals and experts. I'm sorry if you feel I'm trying to destabilize society as that's not my intention.

Originally Posted by ard

And the third point.



Speaking of kinder and gentler....
Your theory on vaccine mutations is incoherent and -if I get what you are saying- insane. You seem to be saying that vaccinated people are creating a unique risk since- if there is a mutation 'in them'- it will 'get around' the vaccine and be some kind of superbug?!? Seriously? Where do you get your science? Facebook?!? This feels like anti-vax BS that tries to leverage the efficacy slippage w/ Delta to undermine the whole vaccine effort. and toss in a bit of 'lets blame the vaccinated' (hint- viruses do not respond to vaccines like antibiotic resistance superbugs.) But really, this is some utter nonsense. If you have a link, would like to see where this nonsense is coming from. Disinformation in its finest.


(and I am serious on this last point, Id like to see where this comes from..)

We know (feel free to correct any of these statements):

- The purpose of covid (and any virus) is to spread to as many people as possible. This is necessary for its survival. The more people infected with covid the less like to go extinct.
- Being highly infectious can sometimes result in a death. This is not good for both covid and the human. If the human dies covid dies.
- mutations occur. Mutations that are not feasible do not transmit (i.e too deadly, not infectious enough etc etc)
- The optimal situation for covid is high transmission with low fatality.

Can we agree on these points?

Now, introduce Pfizer into 70% of the population. After the Pfizer jab you'll be more immune to covid. The key problem is you're not fully immune. This results in breakthrough cases among the vaccinated population. With these cases come mutations and there is a chance covid could mutate against the Pfizer jab. This could result in covid being more infectious in the vaccinated population. This is fine for the vaccinated people as covid's intention is to spread among as many people as possible. Now, there's a chance this mutation could be much more severe among the unvaccinated population because as we agreed the unvaccinated people have a weaker immune system.

Let me know what you don't understand and I'll do my best to explain it. If you think the virus will act differently in the vaccinated population I'll also do my best to understand. I welcome you to prove me wrong and acknowledge the fact that I could be incorrect.

[ard]

Originally Posted by E53Envyy

Yes, it was a serious question. I would rather have a government whom doesn't align with my beliefs then one whom completely imposes theirs and removes my choice and freedom. It should be the businesses choice to decide who can enter their establishment not the governments. Same with the schools, it's the parents children whom are at risk so let the parents decide.

Wait. Talk about nonsensical doublespeak...

So businesses can decide- not the government and not the patrons, right?



So the school can decide, right? School administrators, the people that run the schools.... Not the parents or students who are the patrons.


Or will this then be a 'they work for me, my tax dollars, blah blah' response?



But here is the big lie with these autocratic alt-righties: They really have no sense of right or wrong- just what THEY want. The argument gets twisted until they get the result they want....



You boys are fixing to take up arms against your government, your fellow citizens- all because of what YOU want. (and while maybe not exactly 'you', we are inching close to revolts, in a lot of places. And too many alt righties are A-OK with this.)






PS My child- wearing a mask - is at risk when your child- without a mask- attends school....and of course the same 'if you are scared, stay home' you seem to espouse applies to "if you cant wear a mask, stay home"..... all these alt-righties whipped up into an utter frenzy over masks and vaccines as some surrogate for domination and enslavement.

[Maruzo]

Originally Posted by E53Envyy

What are your thoughts on the covid situation in Israel?

Looks like masks, triple vaccine, and vaccine passports won't hold back delta. Breakthrough cases will lead to vaccine mutation immunity, Israel reports Pfizer is only 39% effective.

What is the solution? If you were DeSantis, what would you do?

i think we're in the presence of a virus that has successfully penetrated a substantial amount of the human population and there's very little we can do now to stop it or eradicate it completely.

My hope is that it will eventually become less deadly and mutates further to become yet another form of flu, i.e highly contagious, widely spread, curable, and mutates every year.

Or not.

Your guess is really as good as mine at the moment.