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  #101  
Old 10-22-2021, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcredliner View Post
What I assumed the original question was is--can a vaccinated person still infect others if not re-infected. My answer was no.



Asymptomatic means they have the virus, have been re-infected but aren't showing any symptoms.
There are also infected/re-infected asymptomatic unvaccinated people as well. It's hard to compare or study it precisely since it impacts every infected person differently vaccinated or not.
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  #102  
Old 10-22-2021, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Purplecty View Post
There are also infected/re-infected asymptomatic unvaccinated people as well. You can't compare or study since it impacts every infected person differently vaccinated or not.
Of course there are. What do you mean by compare or study? Who has posted a comparison?
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  #103  
Old 10-22-2021, 03:31 PM
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Sorry I was referring to in general...
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  #104  
Old 10-22-2021, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy View Post
No, I am not talking about you. But, you may need to address inaccurate information a bit more thoroughly. 1 out 10,000 is not 4 out of 1,000,000. And now you know the reporting is not being reported at a 100%.





Too many questions man! All that matters is I am still alive, right? Side note: it’s amazing what you can learn when you are pushed way out of your comfort zone. And when near death how your perspective can change on what is really important in life.






I’ll be patiently waiting for this thing to pass to the best of my ability.

Let's pick a number. About 100,000 breakthrough cases and 188,000,000 vaccinated. That would be around .00052967%. To get to 1% there would have to be 1,880,000 breakthrough cases. Not trying to say breakthrough cases are not a concern but IMO it is not a viable position for someone, not including you, that breakthrough cases are a reason that the vaccines are ineffective or a position that the reason one is not getting vaccinated is it doesn't matter because of the number of breakthrough cases.

I admire your patience. I could use more.
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  #105  
Old 10-23-2021, 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted by bcredliner View Post
Let's pick a number. About 100,000 breakthrough cases and 188,000,000 vaccinated. That would be around .00052967%. To get to 1% there would have to be 1,880,000 breakthrough cases. Not trying to say breakthrough cases are not a concern but IMO it is not a viable position for someone, not including you, that breakthrough cases are a reason that the vaccines are ineffective or a position that the reason one is not getting vaccinated is it doesn't matter because of the number of breakthrough cases.



I admire your patience. I could use more.


We already agreed, 940 is not correct. Nice math, by the way!

Generally, if there is any doubt, somebody(s) will be concerned.

Breakthrough’s may be one reason. But, I am sure there are other reasons as well.

Patience is a Virtue..!

The ability to wait for something without frustration. This is an extremely useful skill and a good aspect of one’s personality.

This is how I pursue life. I believe 1/10TH is still too slim.
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  #106  
Old 10-23-2021, 03:46 AM
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Originally Posted by crystalworks View Post
Looking at VAERS, deaths from all vaccine manufacturers are 8974. 190M Americans are now fully vaccinated. That's 0.005%, acceptable odds for me and my family. Others may come to a different conclusion as they see fit.



Myocarditis cases appear to be very low, and permanent damage resulting only ~20% of those cases. https://www.aappublications.org/news...s-rates-061021



Look, I've learned already that trying to convince someone on either side of this issue is an exercise in futility. I tend to fall down the middle, as I do on most issues. A reason can be found to support just about any position.



And that's fine, I'm certainly not trying to impune your service to country or its ideals. Both my parents are military, many other family members have served, and I admire all members of the armed services. Yourself certainly included. Again, I am generally against mandates on citizens, but when it comes to schools... with the data currently present, I believe we are better off vaccinating than not. I just ask the same courtesy of not impuning my pride in being American. This country has its share of sins, the citizenship is a mixed bag, and our politicians greedy a$$holes. But I'd rather live here than anywhere else in the world.
CW

Didn't mean for you to take it as impugning your pride, etc. only that too many people just take whatever they are told as gospel since it comes from a tv anchor, politician, doctor or whatever with the belief that they MUST know correctly. But many of (if not all) get some kind of messiah complex and refuse to even make a cognizant argument for their position.

I check everything and that's why I'm still alive. I had a doctor keep saying an MRI wouldn't be a problem for me even though one of my injuries is from frag. If I had just accepted his "expertise" the MRI most likely would have pulled the metal through my intestines or liver.

I view this vaccine/virus issue based on odds.

Let's say in one area you have a 10% chance of getting covid19 without being vaccinated, if you do catch it you (1-25 years old) have a 99.7% chance of survival....

If you get the vaccine you have a 50% chance of some side effect.

If you're unlucky enough to be one of the 50%, then as a male (1-25) you have a +/- 20% chance of getting it being life altering myocarditis.

Those odds make the risk higher for children to get the vaccine vs. covid19 and remember to figure the age/sex not just for side effects but for risk of death from covid19.

Most numbers are done as say 150,000,000 total vaccinated vs 25,000,000 (15-25) vaccinated of which 50% are male and 20% getting myocarditis = huge risk numbers

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  #107  
Old 10-23-2021, 12:24 PM
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On the topic of breakthrough cases, what do you guys think about the plane of 55 Democrats who were all fully vaccinated before flight, but after, six came forward with positive covid test results (who knows if others kept quiet).

That’s an 11% breakthrough rate.

Source: https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/18/polit...-19/index.html




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  #108  
Old 10-23-2021, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E53Envyy View Post
On the topic of breakthrough cases, what do you guys think about the plane of 55 Democrats who were all fully vaccinated before flight, but after, six came forward with positive covid test results (who knows if others kept quiet).

That’s an 11% breakthrough rate.

Source: https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/18/polit...-19/index.html



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One plane with 55 passengers is anecdotal. It cannot be used to extrapolate any percentage that can be considered as an accurate calculation of nationwide breakthrough cases.

In addition, we don't know if any of the passengers had compromised immune systems or the quality of the air circulation system.
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  #109  
Old 10-23-2021, 07:40 PM
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See blue inserts of CDC information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EODguy View Post
CW


Didn't mean for you to take it as impugning your pride, etc. only that too many people just take whatever they are told as gospel since it comes from a tv anchor, politician, doctor or whatever with the belief that they MUST know correctly. But many of (if not all) get some kind of messiah complex and refuse to even make a cognizant argument for their position.

I check everything and that's why I'm still alive. I had a doctor keep saying an MRI wouldn't be a problem for me even though one of my injuries is from frag. If I had just accepted his "expertise" the MRI most likely would have pulled the metal through my intestines or liver.


I view this vaccine/virus issue based on odds.

Let's say in one area you have a 10% chance of getting covid19 without being vaccinated, if you do catch it you (1-25 years old) have a 99.7% chance of survival....

If you get the vaccine you have a 50% chance of some side effect.
If you're unlucky enough to be one of the 50%, then as a male (1-25) you have a +/- 20% chance of getting it being life altering myocarditis.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/info-by-product/pfizer/reactogenicity.html
The study shows percentages of each side effect and also shows the percentage of individuals in the study that had side effects even though they were given a placebo rather than the vaccine.



https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7027e2.htm[
Summarizing the report---No one died of Myocarditis. Treatment was simply anti inflammatory drugs. Most fully recovered. Mostly males 12-29. Of 11,000 unvaccinated cases of Covid that required treatment-- 4598 were hospitalized, 1242 ICU, 700 deaths with 39-47 cases of Myocarditis to be expected or .00427%


Those odds make the risk higher for children to get the vaccine vs. covid19 and remember to figure the age/sex not just for side effects but for risk of death from covid19.

Most numbers are done as say 150,000,000 total vaccinated vs 25,000,000 (15-25) vaccinated of which 50% are male and 20% getting myocarditis = huge risk numbers

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  #110  
Old 10-24-2021, 07:19 AM
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"Most numbers are done as say 150,000,000 total vaccinated vs 25,000,000 (15-25) vaccinated of which 50% are male and 20% getting myocarditis = huge risk numbers" ~EODGUY

As I said previously (above) they mix numbers to obfuscate the problems.

Among persons with reported myocarditis after mRNA vaccination, the median age was 26 years (range*=*12–94 years), with median symptom onset interval of 3 days after vaccination (range*=*0–179). Among 1,194 reports for which patient age was known, 687 were among persons aged <30 years and 507 were among persons aged ≥30 years; of 1,212 with sex reported, 923 were male, and 289 were female.§§



Myocarditis causes damage to the heart muscles usually via scarring and as I'm sure you know. Damage done to heart muscle does NOT heal back to previous levels of health and leaves one open to cardiac events more easily.

So you are basically aging someone's heart maybe 1 year, 20 years or more depending on damage and no one wants to have their child end up with a heart like a middle aged person.

Getting a vaccine should always be an individual's decision but to mandate shots for school aged children (under 18) the LEAST at risk for death from covid19 yet with the highest risk of heart damage makes zero sense.

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