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  #91  
Old 10-22-2021, 02:34 AM
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Originally Posted by EODguy View Post
Here's the problem that most people won't admit...

The mRNA vaccines have NEVER worked in the last 20+ years they've been tried and in fact had caused high death rates (all animals). Now understand that until covid19 these vaccines were only ever tested (and failed) on animals. There isn't any long term studies on them since even the scientists couldn't keep their animals alive long enough (of those who survived) out of the subjects.

I understand enough about biological hazards due my training that I know what questions to seek answers for and to understand a good percentage of scientific papers.

For me personally......

99.7% survival rate

A 20 year previous 100% failed vaccine type that went start to finish in 9 months.

A 2%-5% chance of catching covid19 (+/- depending on area)

A 50/50 chance of either temporary dangerous, life threatening or permanent damage from vaccine side effects. 100% since you are being injected.

A.D.E. seems to be happening now and labeled as breakthrough cases same as Dengue vaccine issue that killed many children in Asia a few years ago.

Children (under 18) dying from covid19 in the USA is around 350 and many of them had other serious health problems such as cancer or severe asthma.

All the other vaccines we put into our children were tested and studied for years before approval and their risk of side effects are so low compared to admitted reactions (not self reported) as to be Russian roulette just on short term.

Suggest reading The Lancet, Harvard and various international studies to include the Israeli studies.

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And to think Ontario is mandating the vaccine for kids ages 5-12 to attend school soon...
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  #92  
Old 10-22-2021, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EODguy View Post
Here's the problem that most people won't admit...

The mRNA vaccines have NEVER worked in the last 20+ years they've been tried and in fact had caused high death rates (all animals). Now understand that until covid19 these vaccines were only ever tested (and failed) on animals. There isn't any long term studies on them since even the scientists couldn't keep their animals alive long enough (of those who survived) out of the subjects.

I understand enough about biological hazards due my training that I know what questions to seek answers for and to understand a good percentage of scientific papers.

For me personally......
I hear you. As in a previous post, I understand the hesitancy based on long term concerns.

But the vaccines have been in bodies now for 10 months. People have not been dying en masse, or having adverse affects in great numbers. Long term effects, if any, won't be known for years. I admitted, those choosing not to get vaccinated could prove to be geniuses. Everyone will have to make their own decision. All the other mandated vaccines started as long term unknowns also.

Schools can spread illness immensely fast. Vaccine mandates in schools is still something I think is necessary, and has been a thing for a very long time. Parents not wanting to vaccinate have a choice of private school or homeschooling. My wife and I have made that choice going on 2 years now. It's a burden, but if concerns are that high... Parents do what they feel is best.
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  #93  
Old 10-22-2021, 11:43 AM
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"All the other mandated vaccines started as long term unknowns also."

Except that's not true. All the other vaccines had 5 to 10 years of human trials before they were added as a mandatory childhood vaccine.

As for fatalities from the vaccines the number of deaths are pushing 10,000 in the United States alone. All the other vaccine deaths MMR, Meningitis, etc total around 300 deaths since the 1980's till today. I know people argue that "those aren't verified" remember that I'm only talking about deaths and a dead body is pretty easy to verify as opposed to (heart problems) after a vaccine is much more probable to have been entered into VAERS solely because someone felt a fast pulse after vaccination, but a DMF'er isn't as subjective as someone's "feelings."

I would also point out that boys 15 to 25 are suffering from myocarditis (which does permanent damage) at rates over 2.4% which is orders of magnitude higher that covid19 deaths for the same age/sex group.

Freedom in America is curated by flag bearers, not flag wearers.

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  #94  
Old 10-22-2021, 12:33 PM
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Looking at VAERS, deaths from all vaccine manufacturers are 8974. 190M Americans are now fully vaccinated. That's 0.005%, acceptable odds for me and my family. Others may come to a different conclusion as they see fit.

Myocarditis cases appear to be very low, and permanent damage resulting only ~20% of those cases. https://www.aappublications.org/news...s-rates-061021

Look, I've learned already that trying to convince someone on either side of this issue is an exercise in futility. I tend to fall down the middle, as I do on most issues. A reason can be found to support just about any position.

And that's fine, I'm certainly not trying to impune your service to country or its ideals. Both my parents are military, many other family members have served, and I admire all members of the armed services. Yourself certainly included. Again, I am generally against mandates on citizens, but when it comes to schools... with the data currently present, I believe we are better off vaccinating than not. I just ask the same courtesy of not impuning my pride in being American. This country has its share of sins, the citizenship is a mixed bag, and our politicians greedy a$$holes. But I'd rather live here than anywhere else in the world.
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  #95  
Old 10-22-2021, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Purplecty View Post
Aren't vaccinated people also still hosts as well? I am curious how as soon as the vaccine started circulating is when the delta variant miraculously popped up and cases started to rise?
Vaccinated individuals aren't hosts. They don't infect others unless they have been re-infected.

The Delta version is a mutation. That is what a virus does if not controlled. The spike was because Delta is more infectious, thus more unvaccinated people are getting it than 19. It has nothing to do with vaccinated people.
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  #96  
Old 10-22-2021, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Maruzo View Post
The problem with having too many choices, is you end up not making any.

So many questions and so many different answers. It's almost like this is a jersey shore episode. Why did Joey choose to wear the tuxedo when it's clearly an informal gathering?

There are so many different voices in this pandemic. Each believing they are correct.

Which makes the job of the experts at CDC that much harder.

When you start doubting the effectiveness of the number one expert on infectious disease and choose to listen to a non expert who pushes for all kinds of cockamamy treatment options, it's no surprise that this country as a whole ends up not able to stick to an effective and universal way of avoiding getting the virus.

The head of the chicago police union is telling its members not to follow the vaccine mandate.

When the mayor presents a compromised solution, he then instructs his constituents to not divulge their vaccine status, citing privacy concerns.

Has it come down to this? We fight every single step on public health policies, even though we know it is designed with the maximum good of the population in mind?

We are willing pawns of somebody's political agenda because they are our leader, even at the detriment of our own health?
Endorsing your point---Several states that are largely republican and unvaccinated represented 95% of the recent spikes.
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  #97  
Old 10-22-2021, 02:26 PM
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The attached articles addresses the questions about COVID and the vaccines. It simple to use just click on your question. The first address the myths and facts we have been discussing. The second explains mRNA vaccines and states they are not dangerous.

Vaccinated individuals can infect others if they have been re-infected. The efficacy of the vaccines is between 90-95 %. To reach that level the J&J vaccine must include the booster shot.

My statement about vaccines mandated for schools was directed to those that don't believe in mandates. The point was a mandate requiring vaccination is not new. They have been in place for several infectious diseases like Measles and Mumps for several decades. Using that as an example I don't see the problem with mandates in schools and for general public for COVID. The precedent was set many decades ago.

The jury is still out if an air born detention device can detect COVID. One such machine has been around for ten years. The company has recently stated it will also detect COVID. The issue I see is that the device currently takes 3-4 days to determine the results. Not to say it can't be engineered for 'instant' detection. And then there is the cost of these devisees. The device of one company is $12,000. And thus far they are said to be 70-80 percent effective. We already have tests that are as quick or quicker that are proven methods. I can't see fast food chains or a company with the number of stores like Starbucks buying these devices for all their stores unless they were mandated unless there was a Federal reimbursement program.

If the resistance to vaccination continues and there is absolutely no indication it won't, I would like to see an instant results test mandate at the door/entrance of all businesses, schools etc. A mandate for everyone, vaccinated or not so no one is singled out. I'm in favor of a mask mandate. The mask mandate should include a list of approved masks.

I think it is way too late to expect those against masks, testing and vaccination to come around based on listening and explanations. Consider this discussion, I haven't heard anyone say explanations here have changed their mind. The misinformation is entrenched and many aren't going to change their position because of their political alignment regardless.


https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...e/art-20484859

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...-vaccines.html
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Last edited by bcredliner; 10-22-2021 at 03:00 PM.
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  #98  
Old 10-22-2021, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcredliner View Post
Vaccinated individuals aren't hosts. They don't infect others unless they have been re-infected.
A vaccinated individual with an asymptomatic infection, would be a host. Just clarifying. I think that's what he meant.
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  #99  
Old 10-22-2021, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by crystalworks View Post
A vaccinated individual with an asymptomatic infection, would be a host. Just clarifying. I think that's what he meant.
Bingo! Even Vaccinated with symptoms would be classified as a host which puts them in the same category as an unvaccinated person. That's all I am saying...
Screenshot attached of a forum member (Username removed) as an example...
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  #100  
Old 10-22-2021, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by crystalworks View Post
A vaccinated individual with an asymptomatic infection, would be a host. Just clarifying. I think that's what he meant.
What I assumed the original question was is--can a vaccinated person still infect others. My answer was no unless they have been reinfected. The risk they have been re-infected, a breakthrough case, is a minuscule percentage.

Asymptomatic means they have the virus, have been re-infected but aren't showing any symptoms.
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Last edited by bcredliner; 10-22-2021 at 03:25 PM.
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