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  #81  
Old 10-21-2021, 04:56 PM
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One reason to get to at least to herd immunity, whatever percent of those that are immune, is to slow mutations of the virus. The 19 version is more infectious. Thankfully, the mutation did not compromise the effectiveness of the vaccines. We might not be so lucky with another mutation. I suspect it won't be long before the vaccines will have to be revised to maintain a high level of protection.

Texas governor is doing his best to see that the virus is never under control here. I very seldom see anyone wearing a mask. Our family went to a restaurant last night. Indoor seating was packed, everyone elbow to elbow and no masks. We paid the waitress to open another section of the outdoor seating for only us. Side benefit was we could actually hear each other using a normal voice. We will never know if it was overkill but based on the CDC guidelines my bet is it was a good choice.
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  #82  
Old 10-21-2021, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EODguy View Post
I'm not talking about admission to the hospital!

I'm talking about how (as I said) giving medication for the symptoms like for cough, nebulizers, anti-pyritics just like doctors do when you go in with flu symptoms.

With covid19 they send you home to quarantine until you're better or so sick you have to be admitted.

Why?

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Sorry, I misunderstood.

I wouldn't go to a minor emergency facility or a hospital emergency room for minor symptoms. They don't know my history and I have no relationship with them. My guess is they would test me and refer me to my family doctor anyway.

Even though I was fully vaccinated, I discussed the best course of action with my family doctor. She advised if I started to feel I might have the virus I should come in immediately to get tested. Based on the symptoms she would advise what to do and call in any prescriptions she thought would help me feel more comfortable. She video conferences with her COVID patients to keep track of how they are feeling. She was clear that there are treatment options that should help minimize the symptoms and likely the severity.
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Last edited by bcredliner; 10-21-2021 at 05:56 PM.
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  #83  
Old 10-21-2021, 05:47 PM
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Depends where you live bcredliner. Here in San Antonio, at least 40-50% of the population wears a mask indoors, excepting in restaurants... because what's the point. A buddy from Houston was surprised when he came for a visit at all the masks. Said very few people wear them in Htown.

That said, we don't eat indoors at all with the kids. And only off hours with the wife and myself (<5 times in 18 months) with very little crowding. We'll turn around if the parking lot is too crowded. We homeschool also, which is a burden.

But I don't expect everyone to do what we do either, I'm sure we are overly cautious. Especially with positivity rates here so low (~2%), but we are cautious for ourselves as it helps us function at a semi-normal sanity level. Others can take as much risk as they deem fit. I hate Abbott (I dislike, and certainly distrust, most people in politics), but I'm not for a statewide (or nationwide) mandate on masks either. Businesses and employers can require them if they want. Abbott's EO to punish companies for vaccine mandates was in response to the Executive branch mandating companies over 100 require them.

Why am I against mandates? Well, government rarely surrenders powers granted to it. See the Patriot Act and FISA courts.
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  #84  
Old 10-21-2021, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by crystalworks View Post
Depends where you live bcredliner. Here in San Antonio, at least 40-50% of the population wears a mask indoors, excepting in restaurants... because what's the point. A buddy from Houston was surprised when he came for a visit at all the masks. Said very few people wear them in Htown.

That said, we don't eat indoors at all with the kids. And only off hours with the wife and myself (<5 times in 18 months) with very little crowding. We'll turn around if the parking lot is too crowded. We homeschool also, which is a burden.

But I don't expect everyone to do what we do either, I'm sure we are overly cautious. Especially with positivity rates here so low (~2%), but we are cautious for ourselves as it helps us function at a semi-normal sanity level. Others can take as much risk as they deem fit. I hate Abbott (I dislike, and certainly distrust, most people in politics), but I'm not for a statewide (or nationwide) mandate on masks either. Businesses and employers can require them if they want. Abbott's EO to punish companies for vaccine mandates was in response to the Executive branch mandating companies over 100 require them.

Why am I against mandates? Well, government rarely surrenders powers granted to it. See the Patriot Act and FISA courts.
There have been many mandates addressing infectious diseases in the past. There are several vaccinations children must have before starting school. Measles and mumps are two examples. Those vaccinations are required so why not a COVID mandate for all?

I assume all of us would like to get closer to what was normal prior to COVID. But about 40% of the country has chosen not to be vaccinated for some reason or another, many are adamant, some even after the have had a severe case. Many have made their choice based on their political party association. Can't change that. The virus is not going to go away on its own. It's not something that will go quietly into the night.

If there isn't a federal mandate business all will be left to their own decision. What small or large businesses decide to do won't be consistent, the same for corporations. Sounds like a fantastic recipe for nationwide chaos. To those that don't believe the guidelines are correct or don't think vaccinations for all is the way to go, what do you think we should do?

The mandates for measles and mumps vaccines they were put in place when too many folks decided not to vaccinate their children on their own. It was to protect them from themselves and to protect the freedom of others. Freedom ends when it infringes on the freedom of others. I would prefer that there isn't a mandate but I would much rather have a mandate than having COVID continue to infringe on the freedom of all of us.
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Last edited by bcredliner; 10-21-2021 at 07:04 PM.
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  #85  
Old 10-21-2021, 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted by bcredliner View Post

If COVID is eradicated, per experts, it will be two more years or longer. IMO the US will be bringing up the rear because so many will not follow the guidelines and/or get vaccinated. As long as that is the case the virus can mutate and likely become more deadly just as the Delta variant has been.
That's my worry as well. As people dig in and find reasons NOT to vaccinate, there remains ample amount of hosts for the virus to continue on and create more mutations.

Each new mutation will make it that much harder to fully remove this virus from our daily lives.

Alec Baldwin asked Dr. Fauci what he thinks of the antiviral drugs that hopefully will get approved in the coming month, here's what he said:

"Well, i think that not only is it a hope, Alec, it is an necessity. Because the primary countermeasure for a respiratory born viral illness is always vaccine. To prevent it. Particularly when it has an acute nature to it. However, it is very clear, that even with a vaccine that is highly effective, that no vaccine is perfect.

So there are 2 ways you can use an antiviral: you can use it to treat someone who is already been infected. To prevent them to progress their disease to the point requiring hospitalization..."

https://podcasts.apple.com/br/podcas...=1000538293496

Main take away is his expert opinion that vaccine remains the primary weapon against an air borne respiratory virus such as Covid.
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  #86  
Old 10-21-2021, 10:26 PM
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Aren't vaccinated people also still hosts as well? I am curious how as soon as the vaccine started circulating is when the delta variant miraculously popped up and cases started to rise?
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  #87  
Old 10-21-2021, 10:47 PM
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The problem with having too many choices, is you end up not making any.

So many questions and so many different answers. It's almost like this is a jersey shore episode. Why did Joey choose to wear the tuxedo when it's clearly an informal gathering?

There are so many different voices in this pandemic. Each believing they are correct.

Which makes the job of the experts at CDC that much harder.

When you start doubting the effectiveness of the number one expert on infectious disease and choose to listen to a non expert who pushes for all kinds of cockamamy treatment options, it's no surprise that this country as a whole ends up not able to stick to an effective and universal way of avoiding getting the virus.

The head of the chicago police union is telling its members not to follow the vaccine mandate.

When the mayor presents a compromised solution, he then instructs his constituents to not divulge their vaccine status, citing privacy concerns.

Has it come down to this? We fight every single step on public health policies, even though we know it is designed with the maximum good of the population in mind?

We are willing pawns of somebody's political agenda because they are our leader, even at the detriment of our own health?
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Last edited by Maruzo; 10-21-2021 at 10:54 PM.
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  #88  
Old 10-22-2021, 12:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcredliner View Post
There have been many mandates addressing infectious diseases in the past. There are several vaccinations children must have before starting school. Measles and mumps are two examples. Those vaccinations are required so why not a COVID mandate for all?
Certainly, vaccines to attend school, obviously should be a thing. Never said I was against that. Quite the opposite, I think we should remove exemptions from school vaccination requirements. Don't want to vaccinate your kids? No problem, pay for their private education.

But schools of children are not equivalent to businesses of adults. If an employee's company requires a vaccination, they have a choice. Likewise for employees whose company does not require vaccination. Either employee can choose to work there or not.

As far as fauci is concerned, I don't know how he still holds his position. He's lied to the public. And he's lied to Congress. I trust him as far as I can throw him. He has been in Washington too long.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Purplecty View Post
Aren't vaccinated people also still hosts as well? I am curious how as soon as the vaccine started circulating is when the delta variant miraculously popped up and cases started to rise?
Yes, the vaccinated public are still hosts. The purpose of the vaccine has gotten convoluted over time. Partially due to learning more over time. It's main purpose is to prevent hospitalization and death. Secondarily, it has a chance to prevent infection/carrier status, but to a smaller extent. I don't remember the percentages. I wouldn't read into the timing of Delta variant though.
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  #89  
Old 10-22-2021, 02:22 AM
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Originally Posted by crystalworks View Post
Certainly, vaccines to attend school, obviously should be a thing. Never said I was against that. Quite the opposite, I think we should remove exemptions from school vaccination requirements. Don't want to vaccinate your kids? No problem, pay for their private education.



But schools of children are not equivalent to businesses of adults. If an employee's company requires a vaccination, they have a choice. Likewise for employees whose company does not require vaccination. Either employee can choose to work there or not.
Here's the problem that most people won't admit...

The mRNA vaccines have NEVER worked in the last 20+ years they've been tried and in fact had caused high death rates (all animals). Now understand that until covid19 these vaccines were only ever tested (and failed) on animals. There isn't any long term studies on them since even the scientists couldn't keep their animals alive long enough (of those who survived) out of the subjects.

I understand enough about biological hazards due my training that I know what questions to seek answers for and to understand a good percentage of scientific papers.

For me personally......

99.7% survival rate

A 20 year previous 100% failed vaccine type that went start to finish in 9 months.

A 2%-5% chance of catching covid19 (+/- depending on area)

A 50/50 chance of either temporary dangerous, life threatening or permanent damage from vaccine side effects. 100% since you are being injected.

A.D.E. seems to be happening now and labeled as breakthrough cases same as Dengue vaccine issue that killed many children in Asia a few years ago.

Children (under 18) dying from covid19 in the USA is around 350 and many of them had other serious health problems such as cancer or severe asthma.

All the other vaccines we put into our children were tested and studied for years before approval and their risk of side effects are so low compared to admitted reactions (not self reported) as to be Russian roulette just on short term.

Suggest reading The Lancet, Harvard and various international studies to include the Israeli studies.

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  #90  
Old 10-22-2021, 02:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcredliner View Post

If there isn't a federal mandate business all will be left to their own decision. What small or large businesses decide to do won't be consistent, the same for corporations. Sounds like a fantastic recipe for nationwide chaos. To those that don't believe the guidelines are correct or don't think vaccinations for all is the way to go, what do you think we should do?
I'd invest in mass distribution of covid rapid tests to all citizens, businesses and schools. I'd then explain to people all the key information and be transparent about the tests - making sure that taking a test is extremely simple and easy. People would be recommended to take a test every three days or depending on their daily routine.

I would then invest into COVID air detectors and give those to businesses and schools.

After that, I would invest in covid treatments. Currently here in Ontario we are told to stay home if we feel sick and only when we're about to die should we seek treatment. Furthermore, if we suspect we have covid and are symptomatic we are told to get tested at the hospital and not allowed in a walk-in clinic or other testing facilities. If you didn't have covid before going to the hospital, you probably do after.



The drawback of the covid rapid tests is the cost (here in Ontario retail costs $15-20, wholesale is <$5) but in reality they could be reduced down to <$1 as it's a glorified test strip.

Another drawback is that people my be reluctant to take the test. I would do my best to show people how quick and easy a rapid test is, but I would not mandate anything. If people have concerns I would listen and not criticize them, changing my approach to better fit their needs.

I'd lift any mandates for everyone and impose a rapid test mandate on the schools.

Really the end goal is to invest into the covid air detection technology. Many company's claim to have a solution already so it's the difficulty of mass production. Once the air detectors are rolled out, the pressure on taking the rapid tests reduces and it's back to normal we go!


What do you think?

Edit: Oh, maybe imposing a mask mandate on people who do not show a valid recent rapid test. This way people are incentivized to take the test and it confirms to other people that if you do not have a mask on then you definitely do not have covid. Now this is a little extreme and I would think long and hard before imposing this mandate.
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