RE: X5 Unrelated, but Good Information in Times of Need - Page 2

upallnight · #1 05-02-2020, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crystalworks

It's the Wuhan flu-coronavirus to me as that's what it started as. Any issues with racial profiling were going to be there no matter what you call it. Everyone above the age of 10 knows where it originated.

Thanks for the map Stephen. Been using this one: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

I know this is going to sound callous, but the world has been in need of a pandemic for awhile now, if for nothing else to highlight our complacency. Depending on which stats you reference the annual flu season kills 600,000+ yearly. Not sure where this caronavirus wiil ultimate end up statistically but it sure has highlighted our lack of preparedness (both domestically and abroad) and ability to handle such an outbreak. There's no money in it. My family and I just hope it doesn't seriously affect anyone within 3 or 4 points of contact of us. And I of course hope the same for all the Xoutpost community.

Do you call yourself an African since everyone knows that human species originated in Africa? If you don't call yourself an African you shouldn't be referring to the virus as the Wuhan Virus. Scientists had already genome the virus and the source of the virus is Europe, not China. People may argue that it originated in China, but if you accept that argument you should also accept the fact that you are an African and not any other nationality.

As for being lack of preparedness to combat the virus, think about where all the masks and other PPE are being manufactured. With the trade tariff that the US placed on goods from China do you think that a distributor is going to stock up on goods from China? Pay the tariff on the good (no China does not pay the tariff on goods imported into the US) and keep it in a warehouse?
Plus the fact that US companies outsource a lot of the goods to other countries with cheaper labor rate, non union workers, and no regulatory agencies to comply with like OSHA and EPA. No, we shot ourselves in the foot and have no one else to blame. But like our leader who claims "No Responsibility" for what happened many of us will follow his lead and blame someone else rather than accept responsibility.

bcredliner · #2 05-21-2020, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crystalworks

It's the Wuhan flu-coronavirus to me as that's what it started as. Any issues with racial profiling were going to be there no matter what you call it. Everyone above the age of 10 knows where it originated.

Thanks for the map Stephen. Been using this one: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

I know this is going to sound callous, but the world has been in need of a pandemic for awhile now, if for nothing else to highlight our complacency. Depending on which stats you reference the annual flu season kills 600,000+ yearly. Not sure where this caronavirus wiil ultimate end up statistically but it sure has highlighted our lack of preparedness (both domestically and abroad) and ability to handle such an outbreak. There's no money in it. My family and I just hope it doesn't seriously affect anyone within 3 or 4 points of contact of us. And I of course hope the same for all the Xoutpost community.

I don't understand why the world would ever be in the need of a pandemic that kills people around the world.

Perhaps the next administration will increase the CDC budget instead of reducing it, expand the task force instead of disbanding it, increase the funding of the WHO to better monitor what will emerge or the next administration will respond with a great preparation plan addressing the CDC, WHO, and Bill Gates warning all put forth years ago.

Maruzo · #3 05-21-2020, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcredliner

I don't understand why the world would ever be in the need of a pandemic that kills people around the world.

Perhaps the next administration will increase the CDC budget instead of reducing it, expand the task force instead of disbanding it, increase the funding of the WHO to better monitor what will emerge or the next administration will respond with a great preparation plan addressing the CDC, WHO, and Bill Gates warning all put forth years ago.

This is the part about lack of leadership, pointed out by BC on a later post.

It is what it is, we need to look forward and prevent this lack of preparation from happening again.

Many experts predict another rise in infection in the fall/ winter season. Let's hope we fare better.

andrewwynn · #4 05-21-2020, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maruzo

Many experts predict another rise in infection in the fall/ winter season. Let's hope we fare better.

Based on *literally nothing*. It reminds me of all the speculation during election nights trying to guess the outcome. Just wait two more hours and *know* the outcome.

Likewise there is perhaps just as much chance that like cov1 this cov2 will just disappear, so let's prepare for the worst and hope for the best. And tell "experts" that think they have a clue to predict the future to put that guess where the sun don't shine.

Anybody that suggests there is a better chance one way or the other is pulling that out of their ass.

crystalworks · #5 05-21-2020, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcredliner

I don't understand why the world would ever be in the need of a pandemic that kills people around the world.

Perhaps the next administration will increase the CDC budget instead of reducing it, expand the task force instead of disbanding it, increase the funding of the WHO to better monitor what will emerge or the next administration will respond with a great preparation plan addressing the CDC, WHO, and Bill Gates warning all put forth years ago.

All of those reasons above might be a few reasons the world needs a pandemic. A reminder about how things come and go a few times a generation that we aren't necessarily prepared for. Ever. This one will pass, nothing will change, and we'll be having this discussion again in 20-30 years. Hopefully a Democrat is in office so the Republican voters can have their turn blaming the opposing administration.

People dying from natural causes, or phenomena doesn't bother me in the way it does some. I'm not of the mind we can save all people all of the time. As Andrew has put it, in no uncertain terms, we are not seeing deaths on a level beyond what we might see from the flu. And that's with most deaths being attributed to CV19. For varying reasons, the numbers being collected are wildly inaccurate (including attributing flu deaths to CV19).

We are not in a black plague-like situation, and talking about it like we are is not going to help the situation. Obviously, I don't wish anyone's grandparent, parent, or themselves to die. OBVIOUSLY. But, if elderly people are always more susceptible to the flu, and we don't freak out that the majority of flu deaths every year are in that population, why are we doing so now? Just like every flu season, the elderly need to be cautious, hygienic, and get the flu vaccine. The rest of us can wear masks, wash hands, etc to help the situation and protect them as much as possible.

Andrew. Even at only 30% effective for the flu vaccine, that's a large statistic. Yes, sometimes it's ineffective because the wrong strain is targeted, but the statistics still show it's better for the public (especially elderly and young children) to get the shot over time.

bcredliner · #6 05-21-2020, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crystalworks

All of those reasons above might be a few reasons the world needs a pandemic. A reminder about how things come and go a few times a generation that we aren't necessarily prepared for. Ever. This one will pass, nothing will change, and we'll be having this discussion again in 20-30 years. Hopefully a Democrat is in office so the Republican voters can have their turn blaming the opposing administration.

People dying from natural causes, or phenomena doesn't bother me in the way it does some. I'm not of the mind we can save all people all of the time. As Andrew has put it, in no uncertain terms, we are not seeing deaths on a level beyond what we might see from the flu. And that's with most deaths being attributed to CV19. For varying reasons, the numbers being collected are wildly inaccurate (including attributing flu deaths to CV19).

We are not in a black plague-like situation, and talking about it like we are is not going to help the situation. Obviously, I don't wish anyone's grandparent, parent, or themselves to die. OBVIOUSLY. But, if elderly people are always more susceptible to the flu, and we don't freak out that the majority of flu deaths every year are in that population, why are we doing so now? Just like every flu season, the elderly need to be cautious, hygienic, and get the flu vaccine. The rest of us can wear masks, wash hands, etc to help the situation and protect them as much as possible.

Andrew. Even at only 30% effective for the flu vaccine, that's a large statistic. Yes, sometimes it's ineffective because the wrong strain is targeted, but the statistics still show it's better for the public (especially elderly and young children) to get the shot over time.

I respect your opinion that a pandemic is needed from time to time but don't share that with you. If nothing happens when we have a pandemic doesn't seem like a reminder is needed, but whatever.

I think it is premature to conclude deaths are similar to that of the flu since people are still dying. If the Covid 19 count is overstated are we sure the flu count isn't also?

I'm sure some folks are freaking out but I don't see anyone doing that here nor anyone acting like it is the Black Plague. Are you referring to someone here?

Important differences between the flu and the Covid 19 virus is we have a treatment regime and a vaccine that at least somewhat effective each year so we have some control over the flu. We aren't there with Covid 19. Another difference is the permanent damage they are now finding in organs from blood clots that may be also happening in cases where all ages, that recover may have.

crystalworks · #7 05-22-2020, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcredliner

I respect your opinion that a pandemic is needed from time to time but don't share that with you. If nothing happens when we have a pandemic doesn't seem like a reminder is needed, but whatever.

Nobody wants the reminder. I certainly don't want there to be pandemics. It's more a reminder on a personal level of how really small and not in control of everything we all are (including our self-important government). How quickly things can change. I've spent more time with my parents and enjoyed watching them with my kids more now than ever before. It's nice to get the reminder that life is finite and to enjoy those you love for as long as you can. They seem to appreciate it more as well.

I don't think things will change on a national level, except maybe going to war with China (or someone else) once more information is gathered about its origination. But I hope I'm wrong on both counts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcredliner

I think it is premature to conclude deaths are similar to that of the flu since people are still dying. If the Covid 19 count is overstated are we sure the flu count isn't also?

I'm sure some folks are freaking out but I don't see anyone doing that here nor anyone acting like it is the Black Plague. Are you referring to someone here?

No, I was referring to the media and certain politicians. They love to report on the most sensational, least rational, and greatest money generating points of view they can find.

Valid point. There are definitely differences between the seasonal flu and cov19. But there are similarities as well. The quote below from health.com shows how many people die (estimated) of flu each year according to the CDC and there is a range associated with the numbers as well, they are giving the estmate, while the CDC's website shows the whole range.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/past-seasons.html

Quote:

Overall, the CDC estimates that 12,000 and 61,000 deaths annually since 2010 can be blamed on the flu. Globally, the World Health Organization (WHO) estimates that the flu kills 290,000 to 650,000 people per year.

I definitely think the number for cov-19 will be higher than the seasonal flu, for reasons you mentioned (no vaccine, treatments). But it is not going to be catastrophic. As Andrew pointed out, it disproportionately affects the elderly just like the flu. Especially those with pre-existing conditions. If there has to be a silver lining, it looks like cov-19 might be less deadly to children than the flu.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcredliner

Important differences between the flu and the Covid 19 virus is we have a treatment regime and a vaccine that at least somewhat effective each year so we have some control over the flu. We aren't there with Covid 19. Another difference is the permanent damage they are now finding in organs from blood clots that may be also happening in cases where all ages, that recover may have.

All valid points. We are still learning about this. But don't let the "permanent damage" fear take hold yet. It could be true, we don't know. It's only been a few months. And it might only be in like .05% of cases if there is permanent damage... or it could be in 10% of cases. We don't know.

But as someone who has had walking pneumonia for a year without knowing (I have really large lungs and it took that long to progress and fill up with fluid enough to affect my breathing) and developed scar tissue in my lungs. With therapy and exercise, it does heal. My last set of films showed my lungs nice and clear again and I no longer wheeze on deep breaths. Smokers are also able to clear their lungs from years of damage after they quit. My sister was a lifelong smoker and would hack and gag all the time. She quit about a year ago, sounds like a totally different person.

^Now that above paragraph is unrelated to cov-19 per se, but the human body can repair itself to an amazing degree.

bcredliner · #8 03-20-2020, 12:33 PM

The point is that is not necessary to tie the virus to a country. It doesn't matter what was done in the past. It's an invitation to those that will twist that into racist comments and behavior toward Chinese Americans.

There is no disease that randomly kills that is a good thing.

There is so much misinformation and self serving spins I suggest the only place one should rely on is the information put out by the CDC, in particular the website.

I don't see the complacency unless it is responding with too little too late. I don't know if it is ignorance, stupidity or self serving to disband a team of experts that was dedicated to monitoring the globe and responding to potential pandemic diseases. Pretty hard to be prepared when there is no early warning system and preparedness watchdogs. We are behind the curve and it is likely we will continue to be. When you have political leadership directing the experts many will become 'political experts' or be taken out of the loop. Once an expert becomes political the result is confusion and over and under reaction by the public----buying three grocery carts of toilet paper or still going on spring break or bar hopping.

There is quite a difference, assuming a correction was needed at this particular time, between a market correction and what this event will cause. National debt will increase as will personal debt. Unemployment rates will quickly and drastically increase. Even if it is over soon the impact will extend far beyond the 'all clear.'

Upside is for those of us that have a BMW because we like to drive it gas is really getting cheap. Unfortunately there is no place to go or we shouldn't go the places we can.

EODguy · #9 03-20-2020, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcredliner

The point is that is not necessary to tie the virus to a country. It doesn't matter what was done in the past. It's an invitation to those that will twist that into racist comments and behavior toward Chinese Americans.

I don't seem to remember people being less racist during the Ebola outbreak even when there were patients in the USA and it's disingenuous to make that assumption now.

Sent from my SM-A730F using Tapatalk

bcredliner · #10 03-20-2020, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EODguy

I don't seem to remember people being less racist during the Ebola outbreak even when there were patients in the USA and it's disingenuous to make that assumption now.

Sent from my SM-A730F using Tapatalk

I assure you my comments are honest and sincere nothing disingenuous about them.

Ebola had been around for decades just never widespread.The Ebola 'crisis' was in 2014 when Obama was President. There was a total of 11 cases of Ebola in the USA. It was viewed as a disease of developing nations. Ebola was not seen as significant threat to the US population. No reason to stir up racists, their focus was already dedicated elsewhere. And, there was no one attempting to do so.

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