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  #261  
Old 04-25-2020, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EODguy View Post
FIFY

What I said was that if your mask, gloves and decontamination regiment is good enough to keep you safe while you interact with people at "approved" places, then why would you get butthurt about there being MORE places open to do business where you can continue to take the same precautions?



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Love how you only quote portions u think would help ur case.

I guess when u don’t like somebody it just doesn’t matter whether what they have to say is right or not.
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  #262  
Old 04-25-2020, 11:42 AM
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Actually it was due to...

1. Not wanting to write a tome the size of War and Peace.
2. Replying directly to the parts of your reply to mine (minus the extraneous things you added in your post)

I am truly sorry that you're worried about your employees NOT being paid, but hopefully the funds you are paying a construction crew will at least allow the construction crew to pay their bills at some (approved) open business.


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  #263  
Old 04-25-2020, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by EODguy View Post
Actually it was due to...

1. Not wanting to write a tome the size of War and Peace.
2. Replying directly to the parts of your reply to mine (minus the extraneous things you added in your post)

I am truly sorry that you're worried about your employees NOT being paid, but hopefully the funds you are paying a construction crew will at least allow the construction crew to pay their bills at some (approved) open business.


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Don’t sweat it. Don’t need fake empathy from a guy who hasn’t got much of it.
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  #264  
Old 04-25-2020, 12:17 PM
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I actually do feel sorry that you are using funds to expand your office in an economic downturn where people can't spend money at your company on things except the basics and the risk that poses to your business and therefore your employees.

Just hope you aren't putting too many lives at risk (construction crew) during this time that you are advocating be spent only doing essential business like grocery, pharmacy, etc but hell yeah I bow to your empathy of those who will lose their cars, homes and probably their health insurance due to lack of payment when the bills come due.

I do believe everyone has to take care of themselves (personal responsibility) and my biggest reason for being pissed off over your attitude is due to the fact that you are wanting people to be forced to do something that does hurt them (stay closed and not work), when letting them work doesn't force you to do jack that would hurt you (force you to go to work/shopping without PPE) because nobody has said that needs to be the new rule.



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  #265  
Old 04-25-2020, 12:26 PM
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So sarcastic. Anything to hurt the enemy, isn’t that right?

What makes you think I am expanding? Have you bothered to ask why I am hiring a construction crew now?

Where’s ur empathy man?

And my posts clearly showed I believe in returning back to work, not sure why u say I preferred to stay home??

What’s wrong with you? Turning my point against me, that’s not truth telling, that’s spinning facts to meet your own needs.
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  #266  
Old 04-25-2020, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EODguy View Post
I'm going to cover this little gem right here...

How in anyway does opening businesses put someone more at risk from another person's actions?

The answer is it doesn't!!

Example: If your happy ass has gone outside the house to buy food and other essentials since this started, then your risk will not be increased by going to more places (if YOU keep taking precautions)

As for the differences in deaths only suicides are different as that is a person doing something that WILL guarantee the end of their life.

A soldier a takes a higher RISK not a certain outcome. The real problem is that too many people are falsely equating more places = more risk and not understanding that if..... Precaution #1 works at the grocery store, then Precaution #1 will also work at some other business. No plan mentioned by anyone has said let's open everything and FORCE people to stand close together at a store and prohibit them from wearing PPE. If that was being said I'd fight that too, but what you're asking for is for others to suffer losing houses, jobs, family members to regular medical issues because you believe it somehow will make your mask and gloves better.

This is so easy.

If you're so worried about the virus.... Don't go outside.

Don't talk to anyone face to face.

Wear your PPE.

Don't do any work at an essential job due to increased risk .

Do not touch cash.

Do not allow products into your safe space unless it's been sanitized.

And the most important thing is....

Enjoy PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY and enjoy not putting the boots to another person's livelihood.

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Re-read your post again just now, so i don't wrongly equal you with those who wears no mask in demonstrating for a no holds barred return to work place.

I believe in "Hammer and Dance", a strategy which I've explained in detail twice on previous posts, so if you still choose to put me in the stay home at all costs camp...

You be wrong!

I like crystalworks. He works to find common ground between people.

You just have a lot of misdirected and pent-up anger and you like to place blames and build conflicts.

But you do not find common grounds.

Sarcasm on serious issues get tiresome really quick.
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  #267  
Old 04-25-2020, 01:01 PM
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But apparently not so tiring that you keep posting away.

If you have ever been in something like the military then you would understand I may be sarcastic, but I am not all up in your grill like you seem to believe.

I have spent more than 20 years in places with collapsed economies (aka shit-holes) and not once did I see any local/national government do anything that helped, but in fact all the rules and regulations had done nothing but peel away the thin veneer that people call society usually leading to armed conflict. The places that got better were due to people not relying on a Mayor, General, President or Dictator and since I have personally bled for the ideals of the Constitution to have people espouse things that go against it is just like being spit upon.

Everyone has the Right to their opinion but no one should believe that there is a clause in the Constitution that suspends the Rights of the People in times of strife or that they should give up those Rights for a little safety or security for they deserve neither.

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  #268  
Old 04-25-2020, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crystalworks View Post
That's another issue, as mentioned. But is a political one. We have sheltered in place for 6 weeks which is what the medical experts have recommended.



I agree, and I think the past 6 weeks have given us time for that prep. San Antonio has issued citations for such violations. Mostly to businesses. But the mayor has said a few citations have been issued to private citizens as well. If the leaders of certain localities don't do their jobs, they should not be re-elected. I know Wal-Marts (or any grocery store) here won't even let you in the store without a face covering, I was just there today for the first time in over a month and could not believe the difference a month makes. EVERYONE had a mask and many had gloves.

Again, the car analogy applies. There will be certain members of the population who refuse to take any precautions. Think seat belts. Some people refuse to wear them. No amount of punitive action is going to change that. Focusing on those few individuals will not produce any policy that will change their behavior. Unless you are talking about killing them. But I doubt that.

I hope you are right and that you guys are at least flat lining. California is a huge state and I'd bet certain areas are going to do better than others. Texas' rural areas are barely feeling any effects at all, except for the economic ones.



Then you are only looking at it from one perspective. That of what is best, in a perfect world, from the guidance of the health care experts. If that were the case, I would agree with you wholeheartedly. We should all stay at home and live off our wealth. Government wouldn't have to hemorrhage money, under capitalized businesses both big and small would fail, and we could wait this thing out. We don't exist in that perfect world and many other factors have to be considered beyond what would save the most lives. I only mentioned the study because no matter the number, there is a correlation, between unemployment and added deaths. It was supporting my point (again no matter what number, unless your position is you doubt its validity at all and that there is no correlation) that we are trading one method of mortality for another. I was discussing honestly/earnestly enough to admit that the numbers of that study 37,000 have been looked at since then in other examinations who say the number is between 1500 and 37,000. I didn't use it as a "gotcha." I do remember it from "The Big Short" though I don't remember that line in Michael Lewis' book. Which is why I looked it up to see if I was passing bad information.



I have also heard all of that, and agree with them. But those are not the only issues as mentioned above. If you aren't able to place yourself in the position of others and, at least entertain, that the cure might be worse than the infection we have a different problem all together. Which is becoming pervasive in this country on both sides of the aisle. A lack of empathy and reason.

Ugh, that was flirting dangerously close to quoting Trump. But unlike many, I can admit when the other side might have the right idea. We have gone through pandemics before, but this is the first time a full lockdown has been utilized. We won't know what the 100% best course of action would have been, could have been, or should have been for many years. Which is why I emphasize might above.
Empathy is part of the reason I am concerned about people that may die because of those that are not following the guidelines or opening the economy haphazardly as we will be doing. And am very concerned about what this does to normal life and damage to families that nothing can fix.

Obviously, it's not a perfect world. I have no idea where that came from other than perhaps frustration. I'm fine with your point of view I just don''t agree. Why does that always upset you? On this subject nobody knows if their opinion is right or wrong anyway.
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  #269  
Old 04-25-2020, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EODguy View Post
But apparently not so tiring that you keep posting away.

If you have ever been in something like the military then you would understand I may be sarcastic, but I am not all up in your grill like you seem to believe.

I have spent more than 20 years in places with collapsed economies (aka shit-holes) and not once did I see any local/national government do anything that helped, but in fact all the rules and regulations had done nothing but peel away the thin veneer that people call society usually leading to armed conflict. The places that got better were due to people not relying on a Mayor, General, President or Dictator and since I have personally bled for the ideals of the Constitution to have people espouse things that go against it is just like being spit upon.

Everyone has the Right to their opinion but no one should believe that there is a clause in the Constitution that suspends the Rights of the People in times of strife or that they should give up those Rights for a little safety or security for they deserve neither.

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You are contradicting yourself. You say you don't believe in suspending the rights of the people. No argument there.

But, your commander in chief has repeatedly said we should treat this pandemic as a "war against an invisible enemy".

What does a soldier do in times of war? They follow orders. You should know better than everyone here with the 20 years of military service you've done for the country.

It's not desperate times, desperate measures.

It's treating it like a war and FOLLOWING ORDERS because we're all in this war together. Every citizen has their part in it and should play their role.

You don't get to tell your superior in times of war: well geez commander, but putting on my mask/ helmet violates my rights as guaranteed by the Constitution.

Think about it. Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.

You want to quote the founding fathers, there's your quote.

They knew that life trumps liberty, which trumps pursuit of happiness.

You're trying to have your cake and eat it too. That's just not going to work out well in our current situation.
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Last edited by Maruzo; 04-25-2020 at 01:58 PM.
  #270  
Old 04-25-2020, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crystalworks View Post
Here is some information coming out of Congress regarding a plan going forward. Much of it is what we were assuming was necessary a few posts up. But at least it's in writing and something that is moving forward.

https://problemsolverscaucus-gotthei...work-checklist

I got this in the email blast that goes out from Will Hurd who is our Congressional district representative. He's a Republican that I think does a pretty good job at being factual in his decision making. He was also on the panel that was questioning witnesses during the investigation into Trump's issues with the Ukraine. He almost lost his seat to a Democrat I went to school with whom I also respect. That was a tough vote.

^Anyway, the point of the above is to say no matter who you support, being on an elected official's email list can give valuable information. I'm on Cornyn's and Abbott's as well, but I have far less faith and support in them.









When you say things like the above, you call into question that last statement. Especially since we were unfortunate to have one member who DID have someone die very recently.

As for playing nice (again read your statements above)... I am one of the most patient and reasonable people you could meet. I'm sure OB and EOD are wondering why I am wasting my time replying to you at such length and fairly even tempered manner. I enjoy back and forth discussion with people of all beliefs, given they are willing to listen.
There is an important difference between not listening and a different opinion. Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I am not respectfully listening and considering your point of view. I am very concerned what will happen if the economy is opened and if it remains closed.
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