Okay, at least we have some common ground to build on then. We agree a 100% unilateral approach for the US will not work. We agree some measures should be unilateral, masks, social distancing, etc. But remember, the gov't (or Trump) doesn't have the authority to order those things. They can only make recommendations. It can be argued which points Washington has failed on recommending. Example, I said I thought masks should be worn from the very beginning regardless of what the WHO, CDC, and Washington were recommending. That was a measure meant to try to keep supply for health care workers. Which, it can be argued are hurt more by not having the populous wear masks preventing infection. But that's another issue.

All of those things above have been mandated by our city mayor and county judge in San Antonio regarding moving around the city. Masks, social distancing, etc. I wish they would also add limiting shopping parties to 1 member of the family if 2 adults are present. No reason to have 2 parents and all the kids (however few or many that may be) doing the shopping. But that's how it goes, no policy or policy maker is ever going to be perfect.

But what business owners and the working class are upset about is that gov't is restricting their right to operate and actually pay their bills. They would be happy to institute any measure to try and ensure their patrons' safety via masks, social distancing, etc. but haven't even been given that option. I'm all for shutting down any business being irresponsible. Surely you can see their the situation from their point of view? Imagine waking up everyday knowing that the 1st of next month is coming around and you will have bills to pay. You haven't worked in a month + and even if you have savings built up, you worked for who knows how many years to build that. You might be dipping into your retirement, or kids' college funds, or worse you might be using your food budget to pay your rent or mortgage, utilities, etc.

No one was upset for the first 40 days as everyone understood an initial assessment had to be made. "How bad is this thing?" "Do we have enough supplies built up?" "Are there any treatments?" And the list goes on and on as this was a completely unknown virus. Well it's been 6 weeks, we now know (generally) a mortality rate, what age groups and populations are most vulnerable, etc. We are not anywhere near capacity in most health care locations. So supplies are available should there be a spike from a limited opening. What I'm saying, and I think a few of the others are saying, is that we are now knowledgeable enough about this to start trying to move towards getting back to earning a living for ourselves and our families. If you have the means, and the desire, staying at home will still be an option for those who are fortunate enough to be unaffected by a stay at home order.

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It took a lot of death and wasted time for us to realize what we need to do. And in the process the US has become the new epicenter of the pandemic.

I'm just saying, let's be better prepared this time before opening the economy back up.

Don't just recommend, penalize those who don't wear masks or maintain social distance.

It takes just one person who goes unprotected to spread it around his social / business circle.

The fear of this virus might be ingrained on most people's minds, but there's still a lot of "brave folks" who choose to do whatever they please without regard for others.

On another note, California seems to have peaked at 2,283 cases on April 20th. It was 1,913 yesterday.

Hopefully it's now on a downward trend, but we won't know for certain unless we see a steady decline over the next couple of weeks.

Without an effective vaccine, our daily lives may never return to the pre covid19 norm.

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That's another issue, as mentioned. But is a political one. We have sheltered in place for 6 weeks which is what the medical experts have recommended.

I agree, and I think the past 6 weeks have given us time for that prep. San Antonio has issued citations for such violations. Mostly to businesses. But the mayor has said a few citations have been issued to private citizens as well. If the leaders of certain localities don't do their jobs, they should not be re-elected. I know Wal-Marts (or any grocery store) here won't even let you in the store without a face covering, I was just there today for the first time in over a month and could not believe the difference a month makes. EVERYONE had a mask and many had gloves.

Again, the car analogy applies. There will be certain members of the population who refuse to take any precautions. Think seat belts. Some people refuse to wear them. No amount of punitive action is going to change that. Focusing on those few individuals will not produce any policy that will change their behavior. Unless you are talking about killing them. But I doubt that.

I hope you are right and that you guys are at least flat lining. California is a huge state and I'd bet certain areas are going to do better than others. Texas' rural areas are barely feeling any effects at all, except for the economic ones.

Then you are only looking at it from one perspective. That of what is best, in a perfect world, from the guidance of the health care experts. If that were the case, I would agree with you wholeheartedly. We should all stay at home and live off our wealth. Government wouldn't have to hemorrhage money, under capitalized businesses both big and small would fail, and we could wait this thing out. We don't exist in that perfect world and many other factors have to be considered beyond what would save the most lives. I only mentioned the study because no matter the number, there is a correlation, between unemployment and added deaths. It was supporting my point (again no matter what number, unless your position is you doubt its validity at all and that there is no correlation) that we are trading one method of mortality for another. I was discussing honestly/earnestly enough to admit that the numbers of that study 37,000 have been looked at since then in other examinations who say the number is between 1500 and 37,000. I didn't use it as a "gotcha." I do remember it from "The Big Short" though I don't remember that line in Michael Lewis' book. Which is why I looked it up to see if I was passing bad information.

I have also heard all of that, and agree with them. But those are not the only issues as mentioned above. If you aren't able to place yourself in the position of others and, at least entertain, that the cure might be worse than the infection we have a different problem all together. Which is becoming pervasive in this country on both sides of the aisle. A lack of empathy and reason.

Ugh, that was flirting dangerously close to quoting Trump. But unlike many, I can admit when the other side might have the right idea. We have gone through pandemics before, but this is the first time a full lockdown has been utilized. We won't know what the 100% best course of action would have been, could have been, or should have been for many years. Which is why I emphasize might above.

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I think without knowing the outcome of your decisions, you always want to err on the side of humanity.

Saving lives is always better than sacrifice lives for economic gains.

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Good summary!

In a few weeks a spike could fairly easily put us right back where we were or even worse. If that were to happen we are back to not working staying at home, perhaps even longer than 6 weeks. One of the things the experts are adamant about is we should be in the containment phase to open some businesses If not, the best of plans is a shot in the dark. The containment phase is dependent on a some level of new infections, testing capabilities and the staff to do the amount of tracing needed to make prevent the spike. I have not heard of any state, city or county that has stated they are ready but that is also another discussion.

Don't know about you but I don't see Texas state government do anything other than screwing up even a good plan and they override anything cities are doing.

Here's hoping where everyone works or your businesses are in the first wave to be opened, all goes well and the economy bounces back quickly.

Again, good summary, well done!

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The last record we have for a vaccine development was the MMR vaccine for Mumps. That effort was 4 years from start to finish.

I'm not saying the Covid 19 vaccine will take 4 years or even longer, but i think we should taper our expectations so we don't get overly depressed and panic when the solution doesn't turn up in 18 months.

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I am very capable of empathy and am very concerned about what this does to normal life and damage to families that nothing fixes. I am also well aware it's not a perfect world. Challenging other points of view doesn't mean I don't respect and consider what one has to say. Opinions aren't right or wrong they're simply a point of view. I have acknowledged there is a correlation between unemployment and death I didn't agree with the 40,000 number or that the study pertinent other than perhaps the process now. The problem with which is the worst evil is that, using your study if you want, we can ballpark deaths related to unemployment we can't if we open the economy wrong and we have to have some concern for others that may be victims is we are personally careless based on recommendations.
Please play nice.

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Here is some information coming out of Congress regarding a plan going forward. Much of it is what we were assuming was necessary a few posts up. But at least it's in writing and something that is moving forward.

https://problemsolverscaucus-gotthei...work-checklist

I got this in the email blast that goes out from Will Hurd who is our Congressional district representative. He's a Republican that I think does a pretty good job at being factual in his decision making. He was also on the panel that was questioning witnesses during the investigation into Trump's issues with the Ukraine. He almost lost his seat to a Democrat I went to school with whom I also respect. That was a tough vote.

^Anyway, the point of the above is to say no matter who you support, being on an elected official's email list can give valuable information. I'm on Cornyn's and Abbott's as well, but I have far less faith and support in them.

When you say things like the above, you call into question that last statement. Especially since we were unfortunate to have one member who DID have someone die very recently.

As for playing nice (again read your statements above)... I am one of the most patient and reasonable people you could meet. I'm sure OB and EOD are wondering why I am wasting my time replying to you at such length and fairly even tempered manner. I enjoy back and forth discussion with people of all beliefs, given they are willing to listen.

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FIFY

What I said was that if your mask, gloves and decontamination regiment is good enough to keep you safe while you interact with people at "approved" places, then why would you get butthurt about there being MORE places open to do business where you can continue to take the same precautions?



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