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  #151  
Old 01-22-2013, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TerminatorX5 View Post
you are referring to the 2nd amendment, and then fallback on to court interpretations of the original texts... it is like barnicles on the ship's hull, or preacher's take of the holy text... the way i read the ORIGINAL wording by THE forefathers is one way, the way it was politically influenced at a given time by an elected or an appointed official that HAS NO vision same of the forfathers - is a different thing...

Jesus came and went, and he said one thing... his words were repeated and CHANGED so many times, that how do you know WHICH christians are following his original words? and which ones are falling victims of the political agenda of the religious leaders at the time? the catholics? the orthodox? the baptists? the lutherans? the adventists? but the beginning was the same!!! it goes with the amendments - the forefathers meant one thing.. it was interpreted the other way...

no matter what this government does to you, you will NOT revolt...

I prefer to think that I live in a HUMAN civilization, and not in the jungle - because if what you are saying is true, than my childhood propaganda about America was RIGHT... and I don't want THE America that was painted for me back then... that America is SCARY!!!
go ahead, ask me where i grew up...
LOL DUDE if you think you live by the original constitution and not the current interpretations your are only kidding yourself. Your argument makes no sense.

"no matter what this government does to you, you will NOT revolt..." You may be scared like this, it shows. But I am not.

"go ahead, ask me where i grew up"
No one cares. Save it.
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  #152  
Old 01-22-2013, 02:36 PM
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noncom, it seems that you are reading some other person's posts, not mine - i am for the constitution, as it has been written...not overwritten for political agenda... reread the posts...
somehow you are falling into the same groove, "leave if you don't like it"... your ancestors did not leave, even though they did not like the way native americans lived...
anyways - you reside in Utopia... isn't Utopia a communist state?
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  #153  
Old 01-22-2013, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xsx450 View Post
LOL DUDE if you think you live by the original constitution and not the current interpretations your are only kidding yourself. Your argument makes no sense.

"no matter what this government does to you, you will NOT revolt..." You may be scared like this, it shows. But I am not.

"go ahead, ask me where i grew up"
No one cares. Save it.
If i don't live by the constitution, why should you live by its amendment?
I'd like to think that the constitution is the law of this land...
I could be wrong, i could be too romantic... but still, if my argument about the constitution makes no sense, where is the base for your argument?

you did not revolt when the IRS was established... even though some states still did not ratify it... you did not revolt when USDA fed us all with gormone chickens, fattened the entire nation... you did not revolt, when the Dept of Ed dumbed down the education in this country to the point where kids can't find NYC or Miami or LA on the map... or add 234+432 without a calculator... you did not revolt when we were fed lies about weapons of mass destruction and had so many of our brightest and bravest killed in the line of duty... I sure hope that you voted, that you wrote to your representative and otherwise voiced your dissent in a civilized manner... not with a weapon...

The State gave the citizens the right to bear arms in order to correct the State if the State goes rogue... However, to protect itself, the State MODIFIED the right to bear arms and redirected the aim of the barrel from the State to other fellow citizens, who are not as law-abiding... and by the virtue of MODIFYING the original the State has stepped on the road to be rogue...

Think about it for a moment... everyone is talking about self-defense and criminals... not what the original was...
and now tell me if that was not a smart tactic by a State going rogue to deflect the attention from itself...

government has you in full compliance with its agenda and makes you think that it was your agenda... masters of deceit...
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  #154  
Old 01-22-2013, 02:55 PM
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Tx,

Whose words are these?

"face... same, the 2nd amendment has no real life bearings on 200+ year old democracy and looks at least, out of place on this pillar of the world's democracy "
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  #155  
Old 01-22-2013, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by TerminatorX5 View Post
government has you in full compliance with its agenda and makes you think that it was your agenda... masters of deceit...

Well at least we agree about something. I have enough guns to fill both of our 4.8is's. Lets Charge DC!!!
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  #156  
Old 01-22-2013, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noncom23 View Post
Tx,

Whose words are these?

"face... same, the 2nd amendment has no real life bearings on 200+ year old democracy and looks at least, out of place on this pillar of the world's democracy "

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

this is one of the multiple versions of the 2nd amendment... other than the phrase "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed", nothing else is being quoted from that passage much...

where is the militia? we have national guard. we have military branches. they are already armed... do we have a different "well regulated militia"? I have to dig it up, but a few years back Sarah Palin has DISARMED a small Alaskan militia... i need to do a google search, to see the reasoning...

if only a part of the amendment is still valid and the other part is not valid, we need to pass another amendment rectifying the issue. if the whole statement is valid, than we should stick to it... but as it was written in XVIII century and stands, it does not have much bearing on XXI century...

I already mentioned earlier - the State very cleverly has deflected the idea of people correcting the course of the State gone rogue to the criminals and self-defense... as a rogue state would do to self-protect
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  #157  
Old 01-22-2013, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xsx450 View Post
Well at least we agree about something. I have enough guns to fill both of our 4.8is's. Lets Charge DC!!!

DC is a police State in a singularly taken city - unless you are talking about taking over the slams, the other areas of DC have more cops per square foot than cops convention...

believe me, we agree on more things that you think - don't get me started on the immigraion... If I were in the shoes of sheriff Arpaio (did I say his name right?), you would think that he is a little angel catering caviar to the illegals... there would be more guns pointed south under my watch, if i had it my way... but that is protecting US from outsiders... I have no problems with people coming through the doors - but have issues with people coming into the windows...

like i said, we have more in common... but i still would not apply that to the domestic policy...
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  #158  
Old 01-22-2013, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TerminatorX5 View Post
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

this is one of the multiple versions of the 2nd amendment... other than the phrase "the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed", nothing else is being quoted from that passage much...

where is the militia? we have national guard. we have military branches. they are already armed... do we have a different "well regulated militia"? I have to dig it up, but a few years back Sarah Palin has DISARMED a small Alaskan militia... i need to do a google search, to see the reasoning...

if only a part of the amendment is still valid and the other part is not valid, we need to pass another amendment rectifying the issue. if the whole statement is valid, than we should stick to it... but as it was written in XVIII century and stands, it does not have much bearing on XXI century...

I already mentioned earlier - the State very cleverly has deflected the idea of people correcting the course of the State gone rogue to the criminals and self-defense... as a rogue state would do to self-protect
Ok. Here is the "Modern" version of the
Second Amendment. Still think its outdated?
Also removes your "Militia" connection.


"In 2008 and 2010, the Supreme Court issued two landmark decisions officially establishing this interpretation. In District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008), the Court ruled that the Second Amendment protects an individual's right to possess a firearm, unconnected to service in a militia[1][2] and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home within many longstanding prohibitions and restrictions on firearms possession listed by the Court as being consistent with the Second Amendment.[3] In McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 3025 (2010), the Court ruled that the Second Amendment limits state and local governments to the same extent that it limits the federal government"
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  #159  
Old 01-22-2013, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noncom23 View Post
Ok. Here is the "Modern" version of the
Second Amendment. Still think its outdated?
Also removes your "Militia" connection.

"In 2008 and 2010, the Supreme Court issued two landmark decisions officially establishing this interpretation. In District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008), the Court ruled that the Second Amendment protects an individual's right to possess a firearm, unconnected to service in a militia[1][2] and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home within many longstanding prohibitions and restrictions on firearms possession listed by the Court as being consistent with the Second Amendment.[3] In McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 3025 (2010), the Court ruled that the Second Amendment limits state and local governments to the same extent that it limits the federal government"

this is an interpretation of the amendment, not the amendment itself... it stands as a law of the land but without dissent that decision would not have come to life...

say, you have a nice, shiny pair of pants... as you wear it, it develops a hole... you patch it up... keep on wearing it... another hole... patch it up again... and again... at the end, you have something that looks like it used to be a piece of clothing, but under so many patches it is hard to determine what was the original design... it is not the 2nd amendment that guarantees us the right to bear arms but the DC vs. Heller that provides such a guarantee... our forefathers are being abandoned... that is sad...

the comparasions are not doing justice, i don't like the patches, the barnicles on a hull of the ship - but if the original text is outdated that we needed a court decision, than maybe we should pass a new amendment? and vote on it...

the laws have been patched so many times, that the original idea is long gone... since we are working off the interpretations of the original amendment and not the amendment itself, why do we keep referring back to it as it was an original?
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  #160  
Old 01-22-2013, 03:46 PM
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Start with helping mentally ill people. Look up how many shooters are on Prozac in American history....
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