What's the matter with Donald Trump.

[Happy]

Originally Posted by bcredliner

Why do you think insults are appropriate? Or, are you trying to be inappropriate?

Not posting excuses. My most recent response was directly from the link you provided that explained the reason Pelosi was there and what she said. I watched and read what you posted and explained why I felt your interpretation was flawed.

Once again, it doesn't matter what Pelosi says or does in this instance. The President is in charge. He is responsible for the actions of his administration. Yes, there is a line of succession that the speaker of the house could become President. If that were to happen the buck would stop with her the day she is sworn in.

What channels defending against a pandemic are you referencing?

Broken record BC!

You insulted me when you felt my interpretation was flawed. I am from the bay, I know exactly what was going on that day!

Just remember that there is a scenario at the precise time that I am typing this message that Pelosi can be the current sitting president.

If you don’t know what channels I am referring to you need to go do some research.

[bcredliner]

Originally Posted by Happy

Broken record BC!

You insulted me when you felt my interpretation was flawed. I am from the bay, I know exactly what was going on that day!

Just remember that there is a scenario at the precise time that I am typing this message that Pelosi can be the current sitting president.

If you don’t know what channels I am referring to you need to go do some research.

I said your interpretation of the information was flawed. I didn't say you are flawed. I don't view that as an insult but I sincerely apologize if you feel that it was.

How does being from the bay have anything to do with knowing what exactly was going on that day?

You made the statement about the channels and you won't list them or take the opportunity to enlighten me to prove your point? You just throw that out without any documentation? You won't even give me a little hint to help? C'mon be nice and share your knowledge.

[Happy]

Originally Posted by bcredliner

I said your interpretation of the information was flawed. I didn't say you are flawed. I don't view that as an insult but I sincerely apologize if you feel that it was.

How does being from the bay have anything to do with knowing what exactly was going on that day?

Because it’s not all about that one day. That’s narrow thinking. It’s the way things are run there. Those who are from there know exactly what was taking place.

While my family and I lived in the bay area, my parents were part of a Democratic committee directly in support of Diane Feinstein, and were an active part of her campaigns.

I am old school Cali. A true bay boi. San Francisco nearly destroyed me. Serving my country was the best thing that ever happened to me, even though it nearly cost me my life.

You sure have a Lot questions, why don’t you tell us a little bit about yourself. Your religious beliefs as you call them. Your family’s background. And how do you get your information.

[Happy]

The religion part makes no sense to me either. He's free to believe in any religion. That doesn't mean he should or shouldn't vote.

That’s my business!

As an american citizen, I would think voting for your local to national elected officials is part of your duty.

Good for you!

You can choose to vote or not to vote, that is your right. But God doesn't govern this country, our elected officials do.

This country was founded under God, or in other words Beneath!
This country was not founded under man.

Forgoing your right to choose the one you want to run the country seems a very passive way to live.

It’s probably better a man like me remains passive!

[crystalworks]

Maruzo, you live in the most progressive and left state in the union (maybe Hawaii comes close?). If your state opened up early, you are giving your elected officials a pass they most certainly do not deserve. Trump is not a dictator, even if he might like to be, and can not unilaterally dictate the actions of the 50 States. And I would never want a president to be able to do so either. Unless we were being invaded by China (or the Russians, UK, don't care) I don't want any one person directing the whole of the country.

If California opened up early... look to blame Gavin and the other elected officials there.

[Maruzo]

Originally Posted by crystalworks

Maruzo, you live in the most progressive and left state in the union (maybe Hawaii comes close?). If your state opened up early, you are giving your elected officials a pass they most certainly do not deserve. Trump is not a dictator, even if he might like to be, and can not unilaterally dictate the actions of the 50 States. And I would never want a president to be able to do so either. Unless we were being invaded by China (or the Russians, UK, don't care) I don't want any one person directing the whole of the country.

If California opened up early... look to blame Gavin and the other elected officials there.

That is the most conveniently wrong assumption about what happened.

You do not believe in a federal mandate over the entire country for health and safety reasons.

Why do you believe in seat belt laws then? Each state can set their own seat belt laws. You don't have to wear one in California, but maybe when you cross the border to Nevada you can put it on. Then when you get to Texas you take it off again.

Is that what you believe in?

Because the same can be said about stuff that gets imported into Long Beach CA. Why govern the import tax from a federal level? Let California handle it.

Why bother with having the same FAA rules? Have it 50 ways. Let each state decide how high they want the plane to be when they put down the landing gear.

Seriously, if a pandemic isn't worth the time and effort of a federal level involvement across the entire country, I don't know what else warrants it.

Our state did a terrific job of holding back the infection because we acted way earlier than most states (Florida and Texas comes to mind) to implement the stay at home orders.

It was Trump, believe it or not, who continued to pressure all governors to open early.

He publicly lambasted the governors to make sure they open each state's economies earlier than later.

Like I said, we all know what happened after that.

For you to point the fingers at the state governors without addressing the single most powerful pressure to reopen (That would be Donald J Trump) is both lacking and insincere.

Or have you conveniently forgotten about what he did?

[crystalworks]

Originally Posted by Maruzo

That is the most conveniently wrong assumption about what happened.

You do not believe in a federal mandate over the entire country for health and safety reasons.

Why do you believe in seat belt laws then? Each state can set their own seat belt laws. You don't have to wear one in California, but maybe when you cross the border to Nevada you can put it on. Then when you get to Texas you take it off again.

This is not a good example because no, I do not believe in seat belt laws for people over 18 years old. Nor do I believe in helmet laws for those over 18yo. I wear a seat belt every time I get into a car and would do so regardless of the law. But I should be able to choose to put it on or not after I've taken the time to buckle my kids in.

I've never been for governing stupid. I don't have a need or want to save every life out there through means of legislation. People die, it's a fact of life. I don't want to live in a bubble to protect everyone else. There are too many people on the planet anyway. A superbug (whether manufactured or natural) will come along at some point in the future.

Originally Posted by Maruzo

Because the same can be said about stuff that gets imported into Long Beach CA. Why govern the import tax from a federal level? Let California handle it.

Why bother with having the same FAA rules? Have it 50 ways. Let each state decide how high they want the plane to be when they put down the landing gear.

These are different circumstances. But okay, I am FOR federal governing of certain things. I didn't mean for my statement to be a blanket statement against any federal regulation. The spirit of the statement was more against regulations governing private citizens' freedom of choice involving personal well-being. And again, involve one person making the call, the president. All of the things you mention went through committees and agencies to be regulated.

Originally Posted by Maruzo

Seriously, if a pandemic isn't worth the time and effort of a federal level involvement across the entire country, I don't know what else warrants it.

It's not that it's not worth the time. As I've been trying to say, it wouldn't change anything. There is no magic bullet to save all the lives of people who have died.

Originally Posted by Maruzo

It was Trump, believe it or not, who continued to pressure all governors to open early.

He publicly lambasted the governors to make sure they open each state's economies earlier than later.

Like I said, we all know what happened after that.

For you to point the fingers at the state governors without addressing the single most powerful pressure to reopen (That would be Donald J Trump) is both lacking and insincere.

I 100% acknowledge he publicly pressured governors. If they don't have the balls to do what's right... vote 'em out. Congress controls funding. Trump was spouting crap and people take it as law. Even as an executive order it's one SC judgement away from being toilet paper.

Our city mayor and county judge have been fighting our governor on all the right points. And supporting him when he does the right thing. Our county has 1200 deaths. That's only about a third of the number that die in all traffic accidents in a year for our county.

Originally Posted by Maruzo

Our state did a terrific job of holding back the infection because we acted way earlier than most states (Florida and Texas comes to mind) to implement the stay at home orders.

I'm not sure what statistics you're using for the basis of that statement. Seems all of those states have fared about the same with all 3 doing better in one category or another. Texas being arguably the best as it's active cases are number 8 on the list of states with FL and Cali being 1 & 2 respectively. If memory serves Texas (or maybe just Bexar County?) issued stay at home orders in late March through April? It's all a blur now. But, again, stay at home orders aren't a magic bullet. We were never going to starve covid out of hosts.

Look, I get it. If you want to crucify Trump as the antichrist. That's your business. I'm just saying (and have been) there are better nails to use than his covid response. I think he's an absolute garbage human being, but I don't think many of the Congress critters would fare much better facing Saint Peter at the gates.

And I appreciate your saying my responses have been level headed. Trust me (my wife tells me all the time), I spend entirely too much time formulating them. I've fallen short of that in past, as have all in these threads, but have been trying to be more even keeled as there are truly much more important things to worry about on a day to day basis. At the end of the day we're all just some guy/gal behind a keyboard wasting our time.

[Maruzo]

Originally Posted by crystalworks

This is not a good example because no, I do not believe in seat belt laws for people over 18 years old. Nor do I believe in helmet laws for those over 18yo. I wear a seat belt every time I get into a car and would do so regardless of the law. But I should be able to choose to put it on or not after I've taken the time to buckle my kids in.

I've never been for governing stupid. I don't have a need or want to save every life out there through means of legislation. People die, it's a fact of life. I don't want to live in a bubble to protect everyone else. There are too many people on the planet anyway. A superbug (whether manufactured or natural) will come along at some point in the future.



These are different circumstances. But okay, I am FOR federal governing of certain things. I didn't mean for my statement to be a blanket statement against any federal regulation. The spirit of the statement was more against regulations governing private citizens' freedom of choice involving personal well-being. And again, involve one person making the call, the president. All of the things you mention went through committees and agencies to be regulated.



It's not that it's not worth the time. As I've been trying to say, it wouldn't change anything. There is no magic bullet to save all the lives of people who have died.



I 100% acknowledge he publicly pressured governors. If they don't have the balls to do what's right... vote 'em out. Congress controls funding. Trump was spouting crap and people take it as law. Even as an executive order it's one SC judgement away from being toilet paper.

Our city mayor and county judge have been fighting our governor on all the right points. And supporting him when he does the right thing. Our county has 1200 deaths. That's only about a third of the number that die in all traffic accidents in a year for our county.



I'm not sure what statistics you're using for the basis of that statement. Seems all of those states have fared about the same with all 3 doing better in one category or another. Texas being arguably the best as it's active cases are number 8 on the list of states with FL and Cali being 1 & 2 respectively. If memory serves Texas (or maybe just Bexar County?) issued stay at home orders in late March through April? It's all a blur now. But, again, stay at home orders aren't a magic bullet. We were never going to starve covid out of hosts.

Look, I get it. If you want to crucify Trump as the antichrist. That's your business. I'm just saying (and have been) there are better nails to use than his covid response. I think he's an absolute garbage human being, but I don't think many of the Congress critters would fare much better facing Saint Peter at the gates.

And I appreciate your saying my responses have been level headed. Trust me (my wife tells me all the time), I spend entirely too much time formulating them. I've fallen short of that in past, as have all in these threads, but have been trying to be more even keeled as there are truly much more important things to worry about on a day to day basis. At the end of the day we're all just some guy/gal behind a keyboard wasting our time.

Attachment 78843

My basis for the statement stems from the early results of the stay at home order in California.

The daily average of infection in California were slowing down in consecutive days as most businesses shut down and people started to stay home for everything except procuring food and emergency supplies.

If memory serves we were one of the few states that actually showed a slow down on infection before the hasty reopening ruined everything.

As a country we made many mistakes dealing with the pandemic.

We were late in containing the virus, late in procuring PPP equipments, had no uniform strategy against a deadly virus, spent way too much and got too little result, and we dragged our feet in doing just about everything meaningful.

Could the number of dead be 100,000 instead of 200,000?

I believe so, if we did the right thing right from the start.

This year should go down in history as a lesson for what NOT to do in the face of a new and unknown disaster.

[Maruzo]

You sure get offended easy, Happy. I didn't pay attention to the numerous insults you've thrown my way.

I just think it's counterproductive to argue about one's pride when the subject matter is much bigger than any of us put together.

If what's said isn't relevant to the subject at hand, why bother responding to the by products of an argument?

[Happy]

No, I am not offended. I am passive.