What's the matter with Donald Trump.

[crystalworks]

I certainly am not for the hyper or draconian reaction that some countries took. Could PPE have been more available? Yes. Should our health care system be much more capable. Uh huh. Could bars and dine-in restaurants have been closed sooner, sure. They should probably still be closed. Could face coverings have been mandated in businesses sooner. Yep. Schools should be closed. But I don't know what kind of realistic approach could have been taken by the American government, under anyone's leadership you guys are looking for that would have greatly changed the numbers. If we are blaming the government, fine, don't focus on Trump. As Happy pointed out pelosi screwed the pooch too, in more instances than one. Congress' constant bickering and inaction is equally to blame.

We have the ability to protect ourselves regardless of other's actions. My family went through an initial shelter in place phase out of shock and concern as well. And was upset by people not wearing face coverings. But we've all gotten over that and are now taking more reasonable precautions. Home schooling our daughter, wear a mask when in any business, avoid crowds (especially those prone to have non mask wearers), no eating out, etc. The only real big impact is the home schooling. Fortunately masks in businesses are mandated here.

180,000 deaths (190 now?) sounds like a huge number. And it is, depending on context. But we have no idea what percentage of those are covid deaths (healthy person dying after contacting covid), covid contributed deaths (underlying conditions), or misdiagnosed deaths. Our family has personally had to deal with a covid misdiagnosis.

I am NOT a Trump supporter, but the continued outrage from the left has gotten worse than the outrage from the right when Obama was in office. Especially over covid, when both parties are to blame. There was an America before Trump and there will be one after Trump. If the executive branch is failing us, the legislative, and judicial are supposed to course correct. If you are unhappy with current govt actions, vote all the incumbents out.

BTW, thank you for your service Happy (and all servicemen/women who frequent the forums). And I hope your family has recovered from their covid experiences.

[Happy]

Thank you Crystal for the acknowledgement. Also, well said!

[bcredliner]

Originally Posted by Maruzo

My fear now for this country is that Covid is not the last species jumping virus we're ever going to see.

I fear that the next new infectious disease is just around the corner. Since the underlying conditions are still present, and the cesspools that foster these mutating agent of disaster is only going to increase, not decrease.

Maybe we'll be better prepared next time around. Maybe we'll learn our lessons and come out stronger the next time around.

But it's not gonna happen if we have another president like this one next time.

Yes, there will be another killing virus. The timespan between instances is decreasing. Sars virus was in 2003. Ebola was 2013 and now covid-19 in 2019.

[EODguy]

Originally Posted by bcredliner

Yes, there will be another killing virus. The timespan between instances is decreasing. Sars virus was in 2003. Ebola was 2013 and now covid-19 in 2019.

You missed Swine flu 2009....

Sent from my SM-A730F using Tapatalk

[bcredliner]

Originally Posted by EODguy

You missed Swine flu 2009....

Sent from my SM-A730F using Tapatalk

I sure did. Oops.

[Maruzo]

Originally Posted by crystalworks

I certainly am not for the hyper or draconian reaction that some countries took. Could PPE have been more available? Yes. Should our health care system be much more capable. Uh huh. Could bars and dine-in restaurants have been closed sooner, sure. They should probably still be closed. Could face coverings have been mandated in businesses sooner. Yep. Schools should be closed. But I don't know what kind of realistic approach could have been taken by the American government, under anyone's leadership you guys are looking for that would have greatly changed the numbers. If we are blaming the government, fine, don't focus on Trump. As Happy pointed out pelosi screwed the pooch too, in more instances than one. Congress' constant bickering and inaction is equally to blame.

We have the ability to protect ourselves regardless of other's actions. My family went through an initial shelter in place phase out of shock and concern as well. And was upset by people not wearing face coverings. But we've all gotten over that and are now taking more reasonable precautions. Home schooling our daughter, wear a mask when in any business, avoid crowds (especially those prone to have non mask wearers), no eating out, etc. The only real big impact is the home schooling. Fortunately masks in businesses are mandated here.

180,000 deaths (190 now?) sounds like a huge number. And it is, depending on context. But we have no idea what percentage of those are covid deaths (healthy person dying after contacting covid), covid contributed deaths (underlying conditions), or misdiagnosed deaths. Our family has personally had to deal with a covid misdiagnosis.

I am NOT a Trump supporter, but the continued outrage from the left has gotten worse than the outrage from the right when Obama was in office. Especially over covid, when both parties are to blame. There was an America before Trump and there will be one after Trump. If the executive branch is failing us, the legislative, and judicial are supposed to course correct. If you are unhappy with current govt actions, vote all the incumbents out.

BTW, thank you for your service Happy (and all servicemen/women who frequent the forums). And I hope your family has recovered from their covid experiences.

I don't know how you talk about the pandemic without defining the role Trump plays in it.

I can certainly separate him or basically anything he says about the virus from my actual approach to dealing with this infection. Since most of what he said are pure garbage.

But I don't think the many supporters who chant his name whenever he tweets can separate the truth from his many ill-advised and useless alternative solution to the virus, including but not limited to: "wishing it would just go away, no more deadly than your average flu, do less testing, only pute on mask if you feel like it, shooting chlorine into your arm, and my personal favorite, hydroxycloroquine."

Focusing on the biggest problem is better than focusing on too many targets at the same time and letting your goal get wahsed out as a result.

Do I like Pelosi or Schumer? I have no opinion on them. They are not the leader of this country and their influence, good or bad, isn't going to change this country in a republican led senate with a republican in charge.

So it's not a matter of spreading the blame for me. It's admitting that we have a bad president and we need to get rid of him and bring in an alternative.

Right now that person is Biden.

I'm sure as heck willing to give him a try, after what we've went through this year.

Seems you can't talk about Trump in a bad way or Happy will be all over me.

But so be it.

[crystalworks]

Originally Posted by Maruzo

I don't know how you talk about the pandemic without defining the role Trump plays in it.

I can certainly separate him or basically anything he says about the virus from my actual approach to dealing with this infection. Since most of what he said are pure garbage.

Good, smart move. It is possible for those who don't agree with his covid policies to protect themselves. And I agree, most of what he says on the subject is garbage.

Originally Posted by Maruzo

But I don't think the many supporters who chant his name whenever he tweets can separate the truth from his many ill-advised and useless alternative solution to the virus, including but not limited to: "wishing it would just go away, no more deadly than your average flu, do less testing, only pute on mask if you feel like it, shooting chlorine into your arm, and my personal favorite, hydroxycloroquine."

That's their business. If they want to shoulder the lion's share of hospitalizations and death statistics, that's their prerogative. But I am also willing to admit to myself that most of those people are not going to get infected and are enjoying a more normal life than myself or family are at the moment. And for taking that risk, they are probably suffering less mental ups and downs as we are. Does that make me a little jealous, yeah. Yeah it does. But my feelings aren't their problems or their fault.

Originally Posted by Maruzo

Focusing on the biggest problem is better than focusing on too many targets at the same time and letting your goal get wahsed out as a result.

Do I like Pelosi or Schumer? I have no opinion on them. They are not the leader of this country and their influence, good or bad, isn't going to change this country in a republican led senate with a republican in charge.

So it's not a matter of spreading the blame for me. It's admitting that we have a bad president and we need to get rid of him and bring in an alternative.

We disagree on the "biggest" problem. The biggest problem, as I see it, is the divide amongst both the citizens and the politicians in this country. Trump is not the leader of the US, though he may be the face of it disappointingly.

But, going with your opinion of him as a bad president (spoiler alert: so far he is), focusing on his positions during covid is not the way to gain Biden votes. You are singing a chorus in the echo chamber to those who were already going to vote for Biden. Focus on things that he might have more impact on. As mentioned, covid was always going to do what virus' do. But the wealth gap continues to grow, government spending continues (by both parties), monopolies continue to be a problem, campaign reform has not happened, etc. Those are issues that more people can relate to and care about. And those are what some of the fence sitters might have their vote determined by.

And, the above is all opinion of course. I understand Happy's frustration with the politics talk on an auto forum... as it most certainly is a waste of time. Hell, only a small handful of us even look at these threads. But time is something I have to waste being at home so much now. When I get tired of it I unsub to the threads for a time and come back later. At the end of the day, we are all Americans, and are trying to create our own little slice of heaven here on earth. The sooner we all realize that, the better, and the quicker things will change for majority citizens and not just the minorities on the ends of the spectrum.

[bcredliner]

Originally Posted by crystalworks

I certainly am not for the hyper or draconian reaction that some countries took. Could PPE have been more available? Yes. Should our health care system be much more capable. Uh huh. Could bars and dine-in restaurants have been closed sooner, sure. They should probably still be closed. Could face coverings have been mandated in businesses sooner. Yep. Schools should be closed. But I don't know what kind of realistic approach could have been taken by the American government, under anyone's leadership you guys are looking for that would have greatly changed the numbers. If we are blaming the government, fine, don't focus on Trump. As Happy pointed out pelosi screwed the pooch too, in more instances than one. Congress' constant bickering and inaction is equally to blame.

We have the ability to protect ourselves regardless of other's actions. My family went through an initial shelter in place phase out of shock and concern as well. And was upset by people not wearing face coverings. But we've all gotten over that and are now taking more reasonable precautions. Home schooling our daughter, wear a mask when in any business, avoid crowds (especially those prone to have non mask wearers), no eating out, etc. The only real big impact is the home schooling. Fortunately masks in businesses are mandated here.

180,000 deaths (190 now?) sounds like a huge number. And it is, depending on context. But we have no idea what percentage of those are covid deaths (healthy person dying after contacting covid), covid contributed deaths (underlying conditions), or misdiagnosed deaths. Our family has personally had to deal with a covid misdiagnosis.

I am NOT a Trump supporter, but the continued outrage from the left has gotten worse than the outrage from the right when Obama was in office. Especially over covid, when both parties are to blame. There was an America before Trump and there will be one after Trump. If the executive branch is failing us, the legislative, and judicial are supposed to course correct. If you are unhappy with current govt actions, vote all the incumbents out.

BTW, thank you for your service Happy (and all servicemen/women who frequent the forums). And I hope your family has recovered from their covid experiences.

Considering what other countries and some areas in our country that implemented the recommended guidelines and their resulting success, it seems clear that we would have COVID-19 under control by now if we had had a Federal mandate to follow the guidelines across the country. I think a Federal mandate is still necessary and it should include severe enough penalties to act as an effective deterrent for those that choose not to cooperate for whatever reason.

I don't agree that those having underlining conditions should be eliminated from the Covid-19 death count. It doesn't mean they were already terminal. It means they are more likely to die if infected. For example, they could have diabetes or cancer and be doing fine. They might have lived another 30 years with either disease. They get Covid-19 and die. Why isn't the cause of death the virus?

The leaders of a country, just as in a business, are responsible for the actions taken by those they manage. They don't get to shift the blame to anyone else. It doesn't matter what Pelosi or anyone else does. In this cause, Trump was directly involved in the mismanagement. It wasn't the fault of anyone else in his administration though they violated their oath of office by not speaking up. He personally downplayed the recommendations of the scientists and still is. He puts his support for defiance of the guidelines on display at televised rallies for all to see. At best that is dereliction of duty, a violation of his oath of office. In a business, certainly a corporation, he would have been fired long ago.

I agree that the House, Senate and President don't work together. That is also part of the job of a President to see that they do.

It requires a two thirds vote by House and Senate to override a veto by the President. Historically that has happened less than ten percent of the time. As it is now that will never happen an either side of the isle. That leaves no possibility of a course correction. And since most votes are party line driven, voting out incumbents isn't going to become a priority. I think term limits should be applied to the house and senate but I can't see those in office in favor of doing so, even suggesting consideration.

IMO, the best we can hope for is that at some point the House and Senate have a significant majority of the same party as the president. Bi-partisan support is at least two terms away and only with forced mending of the major fences separating the parties. Right now they are calling each other stupid, crazy or worse. That only makes things worse. Those are fighting words and working very well.

Less than 45% of eligible Americans vote. Perhaps 1 or 2 here will decide voting is important. If another 10% start voting, or whatever critical mass is, major changes are very possible.

[Happy]

Gee-Whiz BC! How I wish our government was functioning correctly right now!

[Maruzo]

Originally Posted by crystalworks

Good, smart move. It is possible for those who don't agree with his covid policies to protect themselves. And I agree, most of what he says on the subject is garbage.



That's their business. If they want to shoulder the lion's share of hospitalizations and death statistics, that's their prerogative. But I am also willing to admit to myself that most of those people are not going to get infected and are enjoying a more normal life than myself or family are at the moment. And for taking that risk, they are probably suffering less mental ups and downs as we are. Does that make me a little jealous, yeah. Yeah it does. But my feelings aren't their problems or their fault.



We disagree on the "biggest" problem. The biggest problem, as I see it, is the divide amongst both the citizens and the politicians in this country. Trump is not the leader of the US, though he may be the face of it disappointingly.

But, going with your opinion of him as a bad president (spoiler alert: so far he is), focusing on his positions during covid is not the way to gain Biden votes. You are singing a chorus in the echo chamber to those who were already going to vote for Biden. Focus on things that he might have more impact on. As mentioned, covid was always going to do what virus' do. But the wealth gap continues to grow, government spending continues (by both parties), monopolies continue to be a problem, campaign reform has not happened, etc. Those are issues that more people can relate to and care about. And those are what some of the fence sitters might have their vote determined by.

And, the above is all opinion of course. I understand Happy's frustration with the politics talk on an auto forum... as it most certainly is a waste of time. Hell, only a small handful of us even look at these threads. But time is something I have to waste being at home so much now. When I get tired of it I unsub to the threads for a time and come back later. At the end of the day, we are all Americans, and are trying to create our own little slice of heaven here on earth. The sooner we all realize that, the better, and the quicker things will change for majority citizens and not just the minorities on the ends of the spectrum.

Well said and clear headed as always, crystal. The pandemic is just the catalyst that brings out all the hidden problems in this country.

The wealth divide as you've mentioned, the racial tensions between the white and black, police brutality and the underlying conditions that allow them to continue executing racial profiling as means of policing their streets, and many others, such as the rapidly increasing homeless that are occupying our streets and parks, the increasing impoverished masses, white supremacy, domestic terrorism, and on and on.

The many demonstrations this year were primarily the result of racial inequality. The rioting that followed is a byproduct of the demonstrations. It is the hopeless cries of the impoverished who feels doomed in this country that showcased less and less of the land of the freedom and opportunities, and more and more of the us vs them mentality, protectionism at all cost.

But the question is, where are you protecting yourselves from? We're all living in this very same country. Why are we so divisive within our own country?

I'm always hopeful that we'll turn around the many issues we've faced this year and continue on stronger than ever.

But I'm not sure where to base this confidence on at the moment.