What's the matter with Donald Trump.

[AVB-AMG]

Originally Posted by crystalworks

All the paycheck protection programs were garbage as was the additional unemployment. Just give that money directly to tax payers.

I have to disagree with you. I believe that the ideal approach would to extend the financial benefits to those people who are still unemployed and not just hand out $600 to everyone under a certain income level, regardless of whether or not they are employed. Most folks who are employed do not truly need the financial assistance at taxpayers expense, whereas those who are unemployed and will have their benefits cut off towards the end of this year, really do need the extension of the funds.

On a related topic, our local food bank has just announced a 3 for 1 match of any dollar donations made to our local Community Food Bank, by the Dec. 31st 2020. I have already made a couple of donations to them this year and will most likely do so again before the end of the year. I am just waiting to see what the presumed final bill will include that is expected to be finalized in Congress before Christmas and what it may include towards this very important charitable cause. As far as I am concerned, making sure that Americans have enough food to survive is far more of basic necessity than many other charities right now, especially since so many people are still out of work and cannot afford the basic necessities of life.

AVB-AMG

[upallnight]

If you look back on the one-term Presidents during the last 40 years you can see that they were voted out of office because of what they did or didn't do during their first Term.
President Carter didn't win a second term because of the Iran Crisis.
President Ford didn't win a second term because of his pardon for President Nixon.
President Bush (the elder Bush) didn't win a second term because of the economy. His promise to not raise taxes rankle his base and the American people when taxes were raised.
President Trump didn't win a second term because of the way he handle the Pandemic.
None of these presidents with the exception of Donald J. Trump believed that there was fraud in the election process to cause them to lose.

[bcredliner]

I don't think it will be long after Biden takes offices that another COVID 19 program will be brought to a vote especially with the huge spike after Thanksgiving, the one that will come after Christmas and then compounded after the New Year. The vaccines won't help much until next summer or even into the fall. That assumes there will be a significant increase in the number of people following the guidelines, especially wearing masks, and the number that choose to get the shot increases as well. My guess is distribution and injection sites will become a problem before long. Hard to get a distribution project as large as this one right the first time.

[Maruzo]

A business that employees 15 people also supports partly or in full 15 families.

If it crumples. Those same 15 families will crumple as well.

If none of the business gets help from government, then the chances of these 15 families finding another job is going to be much less, since there are now even fewer job opportunities.

That will ultimately mean massive more homeless or below poverty line population as a result.

[Quicksilver]

Can someone please explain why Joel Osteen’s Houston megachurch received $4.4 million in PPP funds??? I don't get it.

[crystalworks]

Originally Posted by bcredliner

The house passed the Care act in March I believe it was. The Senate refused to take it to the floor or negotiate with the House.

True. But they knew it would never pass the Senate. That was after the Republicans were trying to negotiate with the Dems on a bill. The Dems wanted 3+ trillion (if memory serves) and the Republicans wanted 800 billion (again if memory serves). The republicans came up to 1.1 trillion? Neither side wanted to budge after that and the House passed the HEROES act.

Edit: I confused the CARES act with the HEROES act so I edited the above. The CARES act was bipartisan and passed by both the House and Senate on March 6, 2020.

Originally Posted by AVB-AMG

I have to disagree with you. I believe that the ideal approach would to extend the financial benefits to those people who are still unemployed and not just hand out $600 to everyone under a certain income level, regardless of whether or not they are employed. Most folks who are employed do not truly need the financial assistance at taxpayers expense, whereas those who are unemployed and will have their benefits cut off towards the end of this year, really do need the extension of the funds.

And I'd have to disagree with you. But that's the beauty of America. As a family who did not NEED the first stimulus check, I can tell you it helped greatly. We were able to purchase a curriculum for homeschooling our daughter, do a small remodel do provide a school station for her, and a playground set that my wife and I built for the kids since they obviously could not go to public parks anymore. So, as with most in our tax bracket who qualified for checks, all of that money went back into the economy to support businesses and a school system. Without the stimulus we still would have bought a curriculum obviously, but would not have built a desk/study center for her, and certainly not bought the play set as it didn't fit into the budget.

Originally Posted by Quicksilver

Can someone please explain why Joel Osteen’s Houston megachurch received $4.4 million in PPP funds??? I don't get it.

PPP being used as cheap/free loans. This has been reported on over and over again. Some companies who make the press are guilted into the returning the money, but most fly under the radar.

Edit: BTW, those PPP loans are perfectly legitimate/legal. They did not do anything unlawful accepting those loans. From Osteen to Tom Brady they were qualified to take those loans under the letter of the law. I just think it's a stupid law designed to aid large businesses get cheap cash under the guise of helping employees. 500 employees is a lot of people and hardly what I would call a small business. Besides that, small businesses in the form we think of traditionally, mom and pop shops/strip mall businesses, and restaurants aren't helped by the loans as much. Their employees were typically making lower wages and would make more money on unemployment so chose not to stay with the business. I have family who did exactly this.

Again, ^ all of that stupidity could be avoided by giving the money directly to tax-payers. Some napkin math: 180 million tax payers * 2000/month for 6 months = $2.16 trillion. That's quite a bit less than the ~$3.5 trillion that the 4 coronavirus related bills have cost tax payers so far. And I just looked it up, there are only ~145 million tax payers so the savings would be even greater.

[bcredliner]

Currently the government will shut down at midnight tonight. If no program is approved by then there will be no more negotiation unless there is an extension.

The checks are intended to stimulate the economy. Yesterday they were discussing increasing the $600 to $700. Economists think the checks should be $1,200. Trump wanted the amount to be $1,200 but backed off based on input. The thinking is those employed will spend at least some of the money on goods and services, helping some of those businesses that are in trouble which could result in more jobs.

Biden has said he will address another package as soon as he takes office. Some Senate republicans have stated they will not vote to keep the government open if it means they have to agree to a package that is more than they think appropriate.

Our government is the perfect definition of dysfunctional.

[crystalworks]

Originally Posted by bcredliner

The checks are intended to stimulate the economy. The thinking is those employed will spend at least some of the money on goods and services, helping some of those businesses that are in trouble which could result in more jobs

Precisely. The only ones who qualify make $90k or less I think it was? Don't know what the new package details look like or if they will lower the cutoff. But anyone (most will anyway) with a family of 4 will spend that money out of necessity. They aren't going to save it. It's going to be used as if it were an immediate pay raise by their employers and put back into circulation.

Originally Posted by bcredliner

Biden has said he will address another package as soon as he takes office. Some Senate republicans have stated they will not vote to keep the government open if it means they have to agree to a package that is more than they think appropriate.

If Dems were thinking ahead they would pass almost anything the Senate offers to just get something done. Then deal with another package later after the new administration takes over.

Originally Posted by bcredliner

Our government is the perfect definition of dysfunctional.

Correct. x1000.

And again it comes down to my theory that this is all dumb (and more expensive) compared to just having tax payers get money each month. I'm conservative when it comes to spending, but if the government is going to borrow money and increase the debt, I'd like to see it benefit the largest group of taxpayers possible and at least drive the economy.

^That's all armchair quarterbacking obviously. But no one has presented me a position as to why that would not be more beneficial than the convoluted/wasteful garbage they passed. The only thing I hear is that it will be a dis-incentive for people to work. Which makes no sense to me because they will be getting that money whether they work or not (unlike the extra fed unemployment). Who in their right mind wouldn't keep working and get paid double? I'm sure there might be a very small minority who would think that way, but the amount of money I am talking here isn't going to make anyone rich. $2000/mo? It's just enough to help families who really need it pay for rent and food each month. And just enough to be extra income for the people still working who can then spend it and stimulate the economy. And it's cheaper for the tax payers... I can't see a downside. And trust me, I've tried. I want to pay down the national debt, not raise it.

[bcredliner]

The concern about the dis-incentive to work is aimed at those that have low paying jobs and therefore their unemployment check is next to nothing. With the $300 their income could be more than if they go back to work. That assumes they can find a job and that the majority on unemployment don't want to earn their own way. Regardless that argument doesn't hold water-the $300 is not permanent. The real focus by the republicans, in this case, is to attempt to reduce the unemployment roles so the economy looks as though it is rebounding.

The restriction that the $600 is limited to incomes under $75,000 reduces the number of people that will see the check as expendable income. Not good.

The program was not passed until the last minute because the parties talk at each other rather than with each other until a few hours before the deadline. Until then it is all posturing and trash talk. The end result is a program that is only temporarily effective or universally falls short for all Americans. The fact that it adds to the stress of those in financial trouble and all of us due to COVID 19 environment never gets the spotlight as it is entrenched in a battle of opposing party goals. It never gets to be about serving the needs of all Americans. Obviously there are exceptions in both parties but other than a few those individuals still vote along party lines.

The goal of negotiation is to reach a win-win, what is good for all involved. Negotiation takes willingness, understanding the position of the other side and lots of time. There is no win-lose. Letting it lay stagnant until it comes down to wire is not negotiation so all that is left is lose-lose and all suffer the consequences.

[Quicksilver]

Seriously?? Trump is reportedly meeting with Michael Flynn, Sidney Powell, asking about martial law idea

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-rep...062121690.html

And that's not all.
https://news.yahoo.com/more-300-000-...130842353.html

More than 300,000 Trump supporters plan to join virtual ‘second inauguration’ event on 20 January