What's the matter with Donald Trump.

[Maruzo]

You sure get offended easy, Happy. I didn't pay attention to the numerous insults you've thrown my way.

I just think it's counterproductive to argue about one's pride when the subject matter is much bigger than any of us put together.

If what's said isn't relevant to the subject at hand, why bother responding to the by products of an argument?

[Happy]

No, I am not offended. I am passive.

[crystalworks]

Originally Posted by Maruzo

That is the most conveniently wrong assumption about what happened.

You do not believe in a federal mandate over the entire country for health and safety reasons.

Why do you believe in seat belt laws then? Each state can set their own seat belt laws. You don't have to wear one in California, but maybe when you cross the border to Nevada you can put it on. Then when you get to Texas you take it off again.

This is not a good example because no, I do not believe in seat belt laws for people over 18 years old. Nor do I believe in helmet laws for those over 18yo. I wear a seat belt every time I get into a car and would do so regardless of the law. But I should be able to choose to put it on or not after I've taken the time to buckle my kids in.

I've never been for governing stupid. I don't have a need or want to save every life out there through means of legislation. People die, it's a fact of life. I don't want to live in a bubble to protect everyone else. There are too many people on the planet anyway. A superbug (whether manufactured or natural) will come along at some point in the future.

Originally Posted by Maruzo

Because the same can be said about stuff that gets imported into Long Beach CA. Why govern the import tax from a federal level? Let California handle it.

Why bother with having the same FAA rules? Have it 50 ways. Let each state decide how high they want the plane to be when they put down the landing gear.

These are different circumstances. But okay, I am FOR federal governing of certain things. I didn't mean for my statement to be a blanket statement against any federal regulation. The spirit of the statement was more against regulations governing private citizens' freedom of choice involving personal well-being. And again, involve one person making the call, the president. All of the things you mention went through committees and agencies to be regulated.

Originally Posted by Maruzo

Seriously, if a pandemic isn't worth the time and effort of a federal level involvement across the entire country, I don't know what else warrants it.

It's not that it's not worth the time. As I've been trying to say, it wouldn't change anything. There is no magic bullet to save all the lives of people who have died.

Originally Posted by Maruzo

It was Trump, believe it or not, who continued to pressure all governors to open early.

He publicly lambasted the governors to make sure they open each state's economies earlier than later.

Like I said, we all know what happened after that.

For you to point the fingers at the state governors without addressing the single most powerful pressure to reopen (That would be Donald J Trump) is both lacking and insincere.

I 100% acknowledge he publicly pressured governors. If they don't have the balls to do what's right... vote 'em out. Congress controls funding. Trump was spouting crap and people take it as law. Even as an executive order it's one SC judgement away from being toilet paper.

Our city mayor and county judge have been fighting our governor on all the right points. And supporting him when he does the right thing. Our county has 1200 deaths. That's only about a third of the number that die in all traffic accidents in a year for our county.

Originally Posted by Maruzo

Our state did a terrific job of holding back the infection because we acted way earlier than most states (Florida and Texas comes to mind) to implement the stay at home orders.

I'm not sure what statistics you're using for the basis of that statement. Seems all of those states have fared about the same with all 3 doing better in one category or another. Texas being arguably the best as it's active cases are number 8 on the list of states with FL and Cali being 1 & 2 respectively. If memory serves Texas (or maybe just Bexar County?) issued stay at home orders in late March through April? It's all a blur now. But, again, stay at home orders aren't a magic bullet. We were never going to starve covid out of hosts.

Look, I get it. If you want to crucify Trump as the antichrist. That's your business. I'm just saying (and have been) there are better nails to use than his covid response. I think he's an absolute garbage human being, but I don't think many of the Congress critters would fare much better facing Saint Peter at the gates.

And I appreciate your saying my responses have been level headed. Trust me (my wife tells me all the time), I spend entirely too much time formulating them. I've fallen short of that in past, as have all in these threads, but have been trying to be more even keeled as there are truly much more important things to worry about on a day to day basis. At the end of the day we're all just some guy/gal behind a keyboard wasting our time.

[bcredliner]

To be fair, in February. Literally 99% of the country was not a hot spot and could have been considered okay to not follow guidelines.

It is also true the guidelines for mask wearing didn't come out until April. Both are the reason using Pelosi's February visit to Chinatown to say she was sending a message to the American public that wearing a mask or following any of the guidelines that hadn't even been established is invalid.

For an issue like this I think it is important to look at the complete body of work for Trump and Pelosi, what each have been saying from the beginning until know. Trump is still saying masks are not as important as his own experts are saying. Pelosi has clearly been saying consistently to follow the guidelines.

If Pelosi made the same trip and did the same things as the February trip tomorrow I would say also chastise her for doing so.

[bcredliner]

Originally Posted by Happy

https://www.forerunner.com/mandate/X...ple%20ignorant.

If not by voting how will the changes you would like to see take place?

[Happy]

Originally Posted by bcredliner

To be fair, in February. Literally 99% of the country was not a hot spot and could have been considered okay to not follow guidelines.

It is also true the guidelines for mask wearing didn't come out until April. Both are the reason using Pelosi's February visit to Chinatown to say she was sending a message to the American public that wearing a mask or following any of the guidelines that hadn't even been established is invalid.

For an issue like this I think it is important to look at the complete body of work for Trump and Pelosi, what each have been saying from the beginning until know. Trump is still saying masks are not as important as his own experts are saying. Pelosi has clearly been saying consistently to follow the guidelines.

If Pelosi made the same trip and did the same things as the February trip tomorrow I would say also chastise her for doing so.

Yeah BC, it’s a really tough situation. For me it wasn’t so much the the mask wearing that concerned me, but that two extremely powerful people in our government were essentially saying late February “don’t panic”. Fast forward to today, and now one of two of those people is being called a murderer, and the other one is claiming negligence.

I don’t know much about this recent salon trip she took a week or so ago, but I saw she wasn’t wearing a mask. I’m not sure in San Francisco if salons are open yet or not either.

I think all of this is really bad for our country. Everyone wants to blame one person for all the loss of life. But I feel, had our government been working together from the start, that it might have saved the maximum amount of lives.

[bcredliner]

Originally Posted by Happy

Because it’s not all about that one day. That’s narrow thinking. It’s the way things are run there. Those who are from there know exactly what was taking place.

While my family and I lived in the bay area, my parents were part of a Democratic committee directly in support of Diane Feinstein, and were an active part of her campaigns.

I am old school Cali. A true bay boi. San Francisco nearly destroyed me. Serving my country was the best thing that ever happened to me, even though it nearly cost me my life.

You sure have a Lot questions, why don’t you tell us a little bit about yourself. Your religious beliefs as you call them. Your family’s background. And how do you get your information.

My questions are to be sure I understand your position before responding. I have not asked about your background nor have my comments considered yours other than to thank you for your service.

As for where I get my information: As it relates to this thread and even then generalizing, if a source is included in your post I go to that source and review the entire content. If it is a source I am not familiar with I check reliable sites for historical level of political bias and accuracy. I check for other sources for the same content of your source and their level of bias and accuracy. Then I verify if what I think might have merit via sources I have used in the past and any other sources that come up in a Google search. No telling where that might take me. If I feel I have enough to post a comment I might post it then but most of the time I leave it there and edit it. Often I edit the post after I have initially posted the response. I try to eliminate and thing that might generate anger or tension and to check the tone that one might read that was not my intention.

The process for business problems or planning was much more in depth, took a much longer time to complete because of the greater detail and importance of the outcome.

[Happy]

Originally Posted by bcredliner

If not by voting how will the changes you would like to see take place?

For now, prayer. My wife and I and even our children, adult and minor have been praying like never before. 2020 seems like the most prayer filled year. LoL.. It is our family’s belief that prayer is the most powerful tool for change.

[Happy]

Originally Posted by bcredliner

My questions are to be sure I understand your position before responding. I have not asked about your background nor have my comments considered yours other than to thank you for your service.

As for where I get my information: As it relates to this thread and even then generalizing, if a source is included in your post I go to that source and review the entire content. If it is a source I am not familiar with I check reliable sites for historical level of political bias and accuracy. I check for other sources for the same content of your source and their level of bias and accuracy. Then I verify if what I think might have merit via sources I have used in the past and any other sources that come up in a Google search. No telling where that might take me. If I feel I have enough to post a comment I might post it then but most of the time I leave it there and edit it. Often I edit the post after I have initially posted the response. I try to eliminate and thing that might generate anger or tension and to check the tone that one might read that was not my intention.

The process for business problems or planning was much more in depth, took a much longer time to complete because of the greater detail and importance of the outcome.

I hear you BC. I am not angry or offended. It’s this politically charged environment. Not just xoutpost, but our society. It seems feathers get ruffled easily these days.

I pray our xoutpost family remains intact through all this. I would like to see that black beast of yours someday if it is in God’s will.

[bcredliner]

Originally Posted by Happy

Yeah BC, it’s a really tough situation. For me it wasn’t so much the the mask wearing that concerned me, but that two extremely powerful people in our government were essentially saying late February “don’t panic”. Fast forward to today, and now one of two of those people is being called a murderer, and the other one is claiming negligence.

I don’t know much about this recent salon trip she took a week or so ago, but I saw she wasn’t wearing a mask. I’m not sure in San Francisco if salons are open yet or not either.

I think all of this is really bad for our country. Everyone wants to blame one person for all the loss of life. But I feel, had our government been working together from the start, that it might have saved the maximum amount of lives.

There was nothing to panic about in February. The Coronavirus was not a problem in US yet. The first recommendation to wear masks by the CDC wasn't until April 3rd. https://www.medpagetoday.com/infecti.../covid19/85800
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronav...asks-in-public

I agree that Pelosi going to the salon was bad judgment. She should have known no salon services were allowed indoors and not taken the word of the owner.