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#51
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Looking at our declining national murder conviction rate, I am sure people like to be at giving ends, instead of receiving ends. No pun intended! Very mature discussion on a sensitive subject. I am so proud of you all.
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#52
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Question for those of you that would like gun control and even elimination...Why? Is it to save innocent lives?
JCL hit the nail on the head..."I've been and read it as well, to try and understand the genesis of the position that there is a right to be armed. Obviously that right is enshrined in the second amendment. But when I read it I don't think about Cowboys and Indians, I read the phrase about a 'well-regulated militia' and think about government tyranny, putting down the English kng, and so on. So what I want to know is, where is the well-regulated militia? It appears to be required in order to justify an armed populace. And that regulation by militia leaders would presumably include putting those that don't keep their guns secured into stocks every now and then. Those that support gun ownership would appear to have an obligation to participate in that well-regulated militia. And by extension, if they believe the government of the day is not responsive to their desires, they have an obligation to take those guns and overthrow the government. Is that the country that 21st century Americans want?" Unfortunately, the word militia has a negative connotation today...it implies "extremist" or "radical right wing". Amazing how a system can turn things inside out! When FEMA teaches that Christians and the Founding Fathers of America are/were terrorists...we've got big problems. Fed training video: Christian and founding fathers called terrorists - YouTube But here's the best... Gandhi has written about self defense and training in arms...Prison Planet.com » Gandhi advocated the right to bear arms; use of ‘violence’ to defend innocents against bullying, oppression Here are a few quotes from the above article... “I do believe that where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence I would advise violence,” Gandhi wrote in his famous work, Doctrine of the Sword. "When my eldest son asked me what he should have done, had he been present when I was almost fatally assaulted in 1908, whether he should have run away and seen me killed or whether he should have used his physical force which he could and wanted to use, and defended me, I told him that it was his duty to defend me even by using violence." "Hence also do I advocate training in arms for those who believe in the method of violence. I would rather have India resort to arms in order to defend her honor than that she should in a cowardly manner become or remain a helpless witness to her own dishonor". – M.K. Gandhi, The Doctrine of the Sword.
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#53
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"Ghandi pointed out three possible responses to oppression and injustice. One he described as the coward's way, to accept the wrong or run away from it. The second was to stand and fight by force of arms. Ghandi said that this was better than acceptance or running away. But the third way, he said, was the best of all and required the most courage: to stand and fight by non-violent means." Full essay here: Mahatma Gandhi and His Myths (Gandhi, Civil Disobedience, Nonviolence, Non-Violence, Satyagraha) So it appears that Alex Jones et al stopped reading partway through, and thus twisted the message. For some reason I am not surprised.
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#54
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Gandhi also said the following. Maybe you have commentary for it as well? "Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." -- Mahatma Ghandi "Gandhi, An Autobiography", M. K. Gandhi, page 446 I posed a question as to why people want to confiscate or limit guns. Anyone care to respond?
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#55
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in the absence of firearms one can take on an offender with bare hands even if the offender has cold weapon - I had taken on person with a knife with my bare hands and have a scar to prove it ( I was stupid, young kid, but there was no other choice, either live as a jackal with tail between legs or die as a lion... not that I am a lion, it was still stupid, i could have talked him out of it, but I was young... and stupid)... if he had a handgun or any other firearm, and I had a firearm (and you can see that I am not shying away from guns, I used an AK-74 when I was in service), I would have thought hard before engaging the enemy...
It is that bravada speaks so loud: "if it were I, I would have kicked his a$$, I would have done this and that. that bastard would have no chance if I were there"... nonsense - by the same token, our highly trained military personnel with all the intel and field situation awareness would have eliminated all the Talibs... which is not the case, as we all know... In many cases a non-lethal response is sufficient to subdue the offender in a non-military environment... in that case, we should abolish the police, the sheriff department and the whole plethora of other law enforcement agencies, and return to the old days of militia - which brings us back to the very beginning.. the 2nd amendment... These replies of keeping the arms, the right to bear arms - they underline the notion that there is NO legitimate law enforcement offered by the duly elected government, or that the response offered by the law enforcement is not adequate and that there is a valid need to carry arms in order to defend yourself from alleged criminals, as the government has no ability to do so... think about a road rage, when two otherwise perfectly normal, sane, law-abiding citizens with clean bill of health and with a duly registered guns get so enraged at each other... Neither is a criminal, neither is a looney-case, both are respected members of society... but... something went wrong, one of them felt threatened for whatever reason, pulled a gun, the other one saw the gun, pulled his gun, in the result we have 5 innocent bystanders dead, both guys are totally dumbfounded in the police custody... now, think if they had no firearms... I personally was deputized by one of our agents in NYC during UNGA 61 when two limo drivers did not settle on some food from a street vendor, and one of them went for a tire iron... yeah, someone could have been killed but the case ended with some bruised egos and couple real bruises... While our agent held back one guy, i held back the other guy, with the tire iron... if the llimo driver had a pistol - i'd be far away... and the crowd would have been long gone too... no pistol = street entertainment... lol.. nobody dead... also, i have a feeling that I will be unsubscribing from this thread real soon - it is going off on some empty tangent... deja vu... |
#56
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No doubt hot heads will use a weapon of convenience and regret their action later...if left alive to regret. It's really the innocent lives that are lost that cause us much grief...would you agree? Ha, nice jab at the end. No worries...I'm about done with this thread...just one more point to make.
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#57
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#58
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That's just your opinion, and expressing it so childishly doesn't help anyone see your side of the discussion. Period. ; )
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You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist. |
#59
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Unfortunately, I think the majority of those with guns in USA need to have the sentences kept short and simple so that they can be understood. I don't think that they are generally on this forum though...
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#60
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Stereotype much?
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2010 528Xi I demand justice. Or, if there must be injustice, let it be in my favor. Reynold's Wrap: it's not just for hats anymore. Quote:
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