I'll take Covid in Floriduh for $100...or "Is DeSantis toast?"

[Maruzo]

Originally Posted by crystalworks

Breakout cases are a small risk to vaccinated public. Do they happen? Yep, though at a fairly small percentage. Those numbers will rise as the efficacy of the original round of vaccines wanes. But more importantly than being infected, is being protected from hospitalization or serious illness. That's why I quantified with small in regards to the risk. I don't mind getting sick, it happens all the time with kids in school, but I want to be able to manage it at home like any other mild illness.

I didn't say breakout cases were reasoning to not be vaccinated, but rather the unsurety regarding the safety (short term or long term) of the vaccines is an understandable concern some people have. We may not agree with their conclusion regarding the data, but after children can be vaccinated, unvaccinated individuals will pose little threat of serious illness. It will be akin to those who do not opt for the flu shot at that point. At least, that is, if the data being reported is accurate. <<< But that's a whole other discussion. LoL

If there's one thing I disagree with you on, it's your belief that what the unvaccinated do have no impact on the rest of the general public.

We have sufficient amount of hosts (90 or so millions) remaining in the unvaccinated population to allow the virus time to develop more mutations, time to pass on its genetic materials.

You seem to discount this possibility by saying everyone have their freedom of choice and these unvaccinated have no impact on the rest of the population.

Well what about the children? We're just now starting the vaccination effort on the young ones, while a substantial part of the adults remain liable for infection.

IMHO covid is a public health and safety concern and "public health" means the decisions each and everyone of us make on how to deal with covid directly or indirectly affects the efforts to combat it.

Which is why there's strong merit for public mandates like mask wearing, social distancing, contact tracing, quarantine, and vaccination.

It is certainly not up to anyone of us layman to decide whether the danger of this pandemic raises to the level requiring mandates on vaccination.

That should be a decision by CDC experts.

[E53Envyy]

Mandating the vaccine is absurd. We don’t know the long term effects!!! I’m not going to blindly follow “experts” when most are pushing their own agenda without any accountability.

I really hope there are no long term effects but I can’t disregard the warnings from other “experts” who strongly warn against the vaccine. Thus I have to decide on my own and I’m thankful that I have that freedom remaining.

Is it not enough for you to know that you’re fully vaccinated and the likelihood of you catching covid and being hospitalized is basically zero?

And the thought of unvaccinated people causing mutations is valid but I’d be more concerned vaccinated people unknowingly spread covid due to the minor cold-like symptoms. You do know that vaccinated and unvaccinated people are equally as contagious (well at least a couple study’s came to that conclusion but they’re probably canceled at this point). The vaccine is like putting a bandaid on a gunshot wound. Covid is still going to spread and people are going to be less careful resulting in an increased mutation chance.

And let’s not forget the fact that vaccinated people could cause a more deadly mutation. I thought of a better way to explain it:

Assume an unvaccinated person has an immunity (an arbitrary value) of: 5

A vaccinated person had an immunity of: 10

Suppose covid has an infection of: 6

Thus covid will infect unvaccinated people but cannot break the immunity of the vaccinated people.

Now any covid mutation in an unvaccinated person has to be above 5 or else it won’t survive in the host. So we can have mutations ranging from 5-X where X would be certain death

Now consider the vaccinated person where the covid mutation would have to be above 10. So any mutation would range from 10-X.

Obviously in both situations you could have a covid mutation of 15 for example, but the point here from my logical breakdown is the chance of a more deadly covid mutation would come from a vaccinated individual.

Now I am making an assumption, that is, in a breakthrough case the vaccinated individual still has their immunity of 10.



What do you think of this article:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/m...ries-m253drrnf

Yeah sure it could be a coincidence but I’d be inclined to look into it. Just like that plane where everyone was fully vaccinated and covid tested. Why is the government dismissing all cases that do not agree with the vaccine?

Anyway guys, stay safe!




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[bcredliner]

There have been almost 750,000 deaths from COVID in the US. Current average is a little over 1200 per day.

The reactions to the vaccines have been an extremely small percentage and by far very mild. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...se-events.html

A low estimate of 225,000 have been hospitalized due to COVID. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...se-events.html

The Delta variant is more contagious and has increased the percentage of cases of younger people. https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...s/variant.html

The folks that probably or under no circumstances will be vaccinated are more likely republican. https://www.kff.org/policy-watch/the...ination-rates/

I believe in freedom but as much in justice for all. That has been lost by too many of us in the last few years. It has been lost in-- I can do what I want because I am free to do so. That's not the definition of freedom as it applies to US citizens. Our freedom ends when it infringes on the freedom of others. The unvaccinated are infringing on the freedom of those vaccinated.

Trump made not getting vaccinated a red badge of courage for republicans and several republican governors have perpetuated that idiotic notion to endear Trump supporters. Most of the resistance to being vaccinated has been politically motivated even though most that won't get vaccinated don't like politicians.

We have the freedom to stick a knife in someone's back but it is not without consequences. We have the freedom to choose whether to be vaccinated or not but it is coming to the point where there will be consequences in the form of mandates. That is evidenced by the mandates already exerted from the ground up rather than the top down. The unvaccinated are inviting the very mandates they are adamantly against and are putting themselves in the COVID line of fire on purpose. So many will learn firsthand how destructive COVID can be when prevention is safe and free. Around 1,200 Americans are dying each day. All but a very very few are the unvaccinated.

The justifications to not be vaccinated are unfathomable to me and so very very sad.

[E53Envyy]

Originally Posted by bcredliner

Trump made not getting vaccinated a red badge of courage for republicans and several republican governors have perpetuated that idiotic notion to endear Trump supporters. Most of the resistance to being vaccinated has been politically motivated even though most that won't get vaccinated don't like politicians.

Let’s not forget it’s your Vice President Kamala Harris who started spreading fear about the vaccine. Trump was the guy pushing for it

https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/docu...ti-science-and

Snippet from the article:

September 6, 2020: Kamala Harris says "I think that's going to be an issue" when asked if she would get an approved coronavirus vaccine.
July 28, 2020: Joe Biden suggests the coronavirus vaccine won't be "real" and may not be "safe."
August 6, 2020: Biden says the vaccine is "not likely to go through all the tests that needs to be and the trials that are needed to be done."
September 3, 2020: Biden asks "Who's going to take the shot? Are you going to be the first one to say sign me up?"
September 7, 2020: Biden said he would take the coronavirus vaccine "only if we knew all of what went into it."



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[Maruzo]

Even if Harris didn’t believe in vaccine early on, that point has no bearing on what BC is trying to say.

His post is really about common sense and the danger of personal freedom with no fear of consequences.

The deeper hope is for people to step up and do what needs to be done to protect oneself and also his/her neighbors.

But that doesn’t seem to resonate with some people in this country.

[bcredliner]

Originally Posted by E53Envyy

Let’s not forget it’s your Vice President Kamala Harris who started spreading fear about the vaccine. Trump was the guy pushing for it

https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/docu...ti-science-and

Snippet from the article:

September 6, 2020: Kamala Harris says "I think that's going to be an issue" when asked if she would get an approved coronavirus vaccine.
July 28, 2020: Joe Biden suggests the coronavirus vaccine won't be "real" and may not be "safe."
August 6, 2020: Biden says the vaccine is "not likely to go through all the tests that needs to be and the trials that are needed to be done."
September 3, 2020: Biden asks "Who's going to take the shot? Are you going to be the first one to say sign me up?"
September 7, 2020: Biden said he would take the coronavirus vaccine "only if we knew all of what went into it."



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My mention of Trump and republicans was not political. It is simply what has happened.

The statements you posted have been fact checked many months ago and found to be taken out of context and/or very misleading. They are false. https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...accines-not-v/

[EODguy]

Originally Posted by bcredliner

My mention of Trump and republicans was not political. It is simply what has happened.



The statements you posted have been fact checked many months ago and found to be taken out of context and/or very misleading. They are false. https://www.politifact.com/factcheck...accines-not-v/

No your statement was 100% political and considering Trump has pushed for people to take the vaccine (both in and out of office) shows you to be politically biased.

The statements he posted were not taken out of context unless you believe that when asked if she would take the vaccine Harris said "No, I don't trust any vaccine Trump had a hand in" and you have based your belief on what politifact said she meant instead of using your own eyes and watching the interview yourself.

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[bcredliner]

Originally Posted by EODguy

No your statement was 100% political and considering Trump has pushed for people to take the vaccine (both in and out of office) shows you to be politically biased.

The statements he posted were not taken out of context unless you believe that when asked if she would take the vaccine Harris said "No, I don't trust any vaccine Trump had a hand in" and you have based your belief on what politifact said she meant instead of using your own eyes and watching the interview yourself.

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I am only biased to facts. I acknowledge Trump fast tracked approval of the vaccine. Politifact was the only reference I posted. It is not my only reference. This is the complete statement Harris made which clearly debunks your conclusion. Your conclusion is based on something taken out of context. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dAjCeMuXR0

[EODguy]

The Spanish flu killed roughly the same amount of people but at the time we only had 1/3rd of the population so... NOT even close as deaths equaled 20% of the population.

The mRNA vaccines were a deadly failure in EVERY trial (20 years worth) until now and NONE of the test subjects survived long term, although most died of reactions shortly after injection.

The Peoples Rights and freedom are NOT negated by the chance that you might catch covid19 from someone else. These vaccines either work or they don't.

If it works than who gives a shit if they are around someone who is unvaccinated?

If it doesn't work than the vaccinated are just as threatening to the vaccinated and unvaccinated. It's not rocket surgery it's just pure fear and ignorance.

Going off of the stats for ALL age groups your risk of not recovering from covid19 is 0.3%, but if looking at it by age groups then people 65 and older have a 2.0% chance of dying and 85 and over roughly an additional 2.5% and those numbers are still lower since it's not a 100% chance that you will even catch it, but more like less than 50% based solely on the number of people who didn't pass it on to other members of their household who lived with them. (anecdotal evidence only)

In the United States the number of deaths in children is so low that it cannot even be considered a statistical anomaly (43) out of approximately 335,000,000 and every single one of those had a comorbidity such as severe asthma, leukemia or heart defects.

Two basic things to understand....

1. Viruses mutate due to pressure of survival i.e. if it's not hard to survive in say one group but has a hard time in a different group the virus in the difficult group will mutate at a much higher rate whereas those in an easier environment will mutate much, much more slowly.

2. DNA that is subjected to something like mRNA, viruses, radiation will at some point change or mutate. A perfect example is radiation. A person exposed to 50 rads at 18 years old has a very high chance of developing cancer, but a person exposed to 50 rads at the age 40 has a lower chance solely due to the number of times less the DNA (telomeres specifically) will reproduce before death.


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[Maruzo]

Originally Posted by EODguy

If it works than who gives a shit if they are around someone who is unvaccinated?

If it doesn't work than the vaccinated are just as threatening to the vaccinated and unvaccinated. It's not rocket surgery it's just pure fear and ignorance.


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Let's just work on these viewpoint of yours.

1. If it works we are still at the mercy of those who are unvaccinated, because they can pass on virus if they do get infected and due to lack of antibody the virus multiplies and fills his entire body so he becomes a walking virus spreader. Which means the chances of a virus clinging to a vaccinated person is now much higher than if both person are vaccinated.

It's the same concept of virus transmission between 2 person who are both masked vs one person masked while the other unmasked.

You didn't acknowledge this concept when I posted back then, don't think you're going to all of a sudden change your mind and agree to it now.

That doesn't mean the concept is false. It just means you failed to see its significance.

2. If it doesn't work, that's still just a miniscule percentage of the vaccinated that has the breakout case. Which means the vaccination as a whole worked. And your placement on the threat of a less than 1 percentage of the vaccinated without addressing the danger of the 90 millions or so who isn't.

That's just bad math and logic, imho.